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    • JohnnyZee
    • By JohnnyZee 4th Oct 17, 5:34 PM
    • 33Posts
    • 2Thanks
    JohnnyZee
    Landlord being an idiot
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 17, 5:34 PM
    Landlord being an idiot 4th Oct 17 at 5:34 PM
    My friends have recently moved into a new flat. However, one of them has lost their keys for the flat (total set: 3 keys). 2 out of 3 keys are protected, so they need the landlord's permission to get an extra set. However, the landlord is being paranoid and wants to change the locks at the tenant's expense. There are 3 locks (1 lock on communal door, 2 locks on flat door).

    Landlord wants to change 1 lock, and duplicate keys for the 2 other locks (he is asking for £148 in total - wow!! He will also add another £90 if he cannot fit the lock himself). He will then see later if he wants to change other locks. Is this even ethical? I know in the tenancy agreement, there was a clause that the tenant would pay "reasonable" costs associated with replacing keys and/or locks. But since when did tenants pay for changing locks completely? And not even normal locks, he wants to buy some fancy "EVA" brand. Do tenants have no rights/or say in this matter?

    I have a feeling landlord is trying to take advantage of the tenants as they don't know much about locks.

    Any advice on what should be done?
Page 3
    • dpearson86
    • By dpearson86 5th Oct 17, 1:36 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    dpearson86
    The cost is the landlord choice and the type of lock, he may need a certain type of lock for insurance purposes and it may be listed in the tenancy agreement the costs about key and lock replacements (all tenancy's I've had had stated the costs of replacements or having to change locks).

    As a current tennant I agree with the LL, they will not do it for the exact cost, they are running a business and will charge for that.
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 5th Oct 17, 1:46 PM
    • 3,053 Posts
    • 3,165 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    I agree with everyone else who said that given the tenant lost the keys it is for the tenant to put things right. This includes paying for labour. Trying to quibble over this is unseemly in my view - you may have managed to cost the parts but I would suggest that if you got a quote for a locksmith to actually come out and fit the locks while removing the old ones it would run a fair bit dearer than £150. Bear in mind you will have also caused significant inconvenience to the landlord in dealing with this matter, and inconvenience to both him and the other tenants in that they'll have to have their keys replaced.

    The landlord asking for £150 to replace the locks on the building and the individual flat, including labour, is remarkably good value in my opinion, and probably best to pay it in the interests of a harmonious relationship with your landlord. If you don't, the landlord will pay it anyway (indeed from what you post he already appears to have paid for the new locks) and it will end up coming out of your deposit. It is not at your discretion what locks he orders or who he orders them from beyond refusing to pay anything too excessive (which as above, this is not), not least since you lost the keys and he's entitled to be left in the position he started in.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 5th Oct 17, 1:58 PM
    • 3,884 Posts
    • 7,893 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    Ok, I have now gotten some more information. The lock the tenant wants to change is "ERA" brand, not the more expensive "EVVA". That identical lock can be obtained for about £40 from various hardware shops. Also, to duplicate the 2 other keys would cost £10 each. So total cost should be about £60ish.

    Now tell me, is the landlord being fair by asking for £150?? Who decides what is the right price? And I understand the landlord is free to put whatever lock he wants, but can he just pass on the cost to the tenant without their say? Also, is it fair to ask to landlord to furnish receipts?
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    But... there are two locks to be replaced, and two sets of keys: those to the rented flat, and those to the communal door.

    So, that'd make a cost of around £120. You find a locksmith that'll fit two locks for £150.

    Even if the front door lock can be reprogrammed (and it sounds like it can't), that still takes time.

    Yes, the landlord is being fair - indeed, it sounds like he's doing much of the work for little reward. Add in the time to buy the locks, the travel time to fit them, the possibility the job takes longer than he expects...

    The landlord is not being an idiot.... but somebody certainly is!
    • zx81
    • By zx81 5th Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    • 14,396 Posts
    • 15,186 Thanks
    zx81
    At this rate, it would be quicker to go and look for the damn keys that the idiot tenant lost.
    • lisa_123
    • By lisa_123 5th Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lisa_123
    Unfortunately, the tenant is responsible for lock replacements if they lost the keys. Our landlord charged us £400, because we picked the property with a very special expensive lock, we just had to pay it
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 5th Oct 17, 2:16 PM
    • 728 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    I am not sure what brand the current locks are, but wouldn't it be fair for the tenants to pay only part of the cost? The lock is going to outlast the tenancy agreement.
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    That's irrelevant - they wouldn't need changing at all if a key hadn't been lost.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 5th Oct 17, 5:16 PM
    • 16,130 Posts
    • 40,036 Thanks
    FBaby
    Say you (or your friend) don't pay, he gives you notice to end the tenancy, he asks for a deduction for the costs of changing the locks, you refuse, it goes to the ADR. He makes a case showing receipts for the lock and keys, and then say that he changed it himself and charged £60. You can bet that he would get the full amount.

    Would you rather pay and remain in the property, or pay and have to look for somewhere else (with the agency costs that come with it that will be much more than the £60 he is asking for his labour).
    • JohnnyZee
    • By JohnnyZee 5th Oct 17, 5:24 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JohnnyZee
    Yes. A couple of hours labour time for arranging and fixing plus the parts (which you have costed) seems perfectly reasonable.
    Originally posted by parkrunner
    The £150 is excluding any labour. LL wants to try to change the lock himself. TBH, if you get a like-for-like lock, anyone with simple DIY skills can change that lock. I have seen it and can do it for them.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 5th Oct 17, 5:28 PM
    • 365 Posts
    • 530 Thanks
    Slithery
    The £150 is excluding any labour. LL wants to try to change the lock himself.
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    So are you saying that the landlords labour isn't worth anything?
    • kelpie35
    • By kelpie35 5th Oct 17, 5:39 PM
    • 1,535 Posts
    • 4,907 Thanks
    kelpie35
    A very expensive mistake the tenant has had to learn.

    Either pay up or shut up.

    I would not wish to have you as a tenant.
    • chucknorris
    • By chucknorris 5th Oct 17, 5:47 PM
    • 9,343 Posts
    • 14,007 Thanks
    chucknorris
    A very expensive mistake the tenant has had to learn.

    Either pay up or shut up.

    I would not wish to have you as a tenant.
    Originally posted by kelpie35
    Seconded, hopefully you spot the idiots (using the OP's description of the landlord, not one that I would normally use over one mishap) when you vet them, but sadly it doesn't always happen. Just goes to reinforce though, be careful who you let into your property.
    Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird
    The only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake
    Chuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".
    After running injuries I now also hike, cycle and swim, less impact on my joints.

    For the avoidance of doubt Chuck Norris is an actor and an ex martial artist (not me)
    • JohnnyZee
    • By JohnnyZee 5th Oct 17, 5:49 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JohnnyZee
    Wow! Is this forum full of landlords who have no empathy for tenants? I am not saying the tenants should not pay for their mistake, all I am asking is what is the fair and just amount?
    • chucknorris
    • By chucknorris 5th Oct 17, 5:50 PM
    • 9,343 Posts
    • 14,007 Thanks
    chucknorris
    So are you saying that the landlords labour isn't worth anything?
    Originally posted by Slithery
    Sadly and quite unfairly that is actually true, a landlord cannot claim a value for his time. Which usually ends up having to charge the tenant more, to employ someone else to do tasks that could be done cheaper by the landlord.
    Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird
    The only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake
    Chuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".
    After running injuries I now also hike, cycle and swim, less impact on my joints.

    For the avoidance of doubt Chuck Norris is an actor and an ex martial artist (not me)
    • kelpie35
    • By kelpie35 5th Oct 17, 5:52 PM
    • 1,535 Posts
    • 4,907 Thanks
    kelpie35
    I can assure you I am not a landlord, but it does anger me that people now a days are not prepared to pay for their own mistakes.

    As I said before pay up or shut up.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 5th Oct 17, 5:53 PM
    • 171 Posts
    • 4,192 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    The £150 is excluding any labour. LL wants to try to change the lock himself. TBH, if you get a like-for-like lock, anyone with simple DIY skills can change that lock. I have seen it and can do it for them.
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    But if I were one of the other tenants in the building, I would want this to be under the landlord's control.

    You're a mate of the tenant who lost the keys. No-one in my household lost any keys and I don't know anything about you. I'm not comfortable with his mate touching the communal lock.
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 5th Oct 17, 5:53 PM
    • 3,884 Posts
    • 7,893 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    I am asking is what is the fair and just amount?
    The full cost of two locks, plus the cost of fitting two locks. Where I let out, the cost of calling a locksmith to fix a lock is £50 call-out fee.

    Look, you don't seem to get the near-universal opinion, and it's not a "landlord" thing... It's just "what's right and fair".

    Somebody makes an expensive mistake, they pay to fix it.

    That's the adult World!
    • missprice
    • By missprice 5th Oct 17, 5:53 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
    • 97,740 Thanks
    missprice
    The £150 is excluding any labour. LL wants to try to change the lock himself. TBH, if you get a like-for-like lock, anyone with simple DIY skills can change that lock. I have seen it and can do it for them.
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    So LL is trying to save money and fit himself, yet still that's not good enough?
    If you fit the lock and do a terrible job making things no better in the end, the LL can and will blame you and it could cost yet more. If LL does a terrible job and mucks the whole thing up, he will employ a locksmith and charge no more than he already said

    ETA, not a LL
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • chucknorris
    • By chucknorris 5th Oct 17, 5:55 PM
    • 9,343 Posts
    • 14,007 Thanks
    chucknorris
    Wow! Is this forum full of landlords who have no empathy for tenants? I am not saying the tenants should not pay for their mistake, all I am asking is what is the fair and just amount?
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    I think that you will find that the the forum is quite fair, so when a tenant tries it on, or starts a post entitled (landlord being an idiot, when in fact, he is being quite reasonable) like you have, even anti-landlord posters will desert you.

    Do you still think the title of this thread is reasonable? If not, why didn't you change it?
    Last edited by chucknorris; 05-10-2017 at 5:58 PM.
    Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird
    The only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake
    Chuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".
    After running injuries I now also hike, cycle and swim, less impact on my joints.

    For the avoidance of doubt Chuck Norris is an actor and an ex martial artist (not me)
    • missprice
    • By missprice 5th Oct 17, 5:59 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
    • 97,740 Thanks
    missprice
    Wow! Is this forum full of landlords who have no empathy for tenants? I am not saying the tenants should not pay for their mistake, all I am asking is what is the fair and just amount?
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee

    Actually this forum is almost always on the tenants side. So to get the lot of us agreeing on the same point means the tenant who lost the keys should pay the reasonable costs the LL stated
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 5th Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    • 5,566 Posts
    • 4,972 Thanks
    00ec25
    Sadly and quite unfairly that is actually true, a landlord cannot claim a value for his time. Which usually ends up having to charge the tenant more, to employ someone else to do tasks that could be done cheaper by the landlord.
    Originally posted by chucknorris
    a LL is perfectly entitled to charge for his labour cost and /or his expenses in attending the property (travel etc) to undertake the repair

    however, the LL cannot claim his labour charge as a deduction/cost on his tax return. Therefore, with no deduction, a LL who charges for his labour will be taxed on all of that income as pure "profit".

    Wow! Is this forum full of landlords who have no empathy for tenants? I am not saying the tenants should not pay for their mistake, all I am asking is what is the fair and just amount?
    Originally posted by JohnnyZee
    you keep repeating yourself (having started with an aggressively biased statement) so we'll keep repeating that it is fair and reasonable that the LL charges you for a) like for like locks and also b) his time and/or travel costs in doing the work.
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