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  • FIRST POST
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 3rd Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • 31Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre Claim
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre Claim 3rd Oct 17 at 9:41 PM
    Small Claims Court Letter
    Hi, I wonder if you can advise what is the best procedure to follow. A PCN incurred at Stepping Hill Hospital from GEMINI on 13/11/2016. No Notice to Keeper/Driver received, only communications from a third party solicitor. The latest communication is from County Court Business Centre in Northampton with PCN number not mentioned or time of ticket - includes charges for court fee and legal representative's costs.

    I was considering a defence of no Notice to Keeper/Driver and I thought it worth mentioning that the PCN number has never been mentioned in any correspondence. All correspondence has been demands from third party Gladstones who appear to have name and address of keeper and nothing else

    I am struggling to decide which is the best form of defence to choose.
Page 3
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Feb 18, 10:38 AM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    VIdeo - cd/dvd/memory stick, and id suggest having your own method to view it on the day.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    You could also ask the court in advance to provide a device to play your video. You will need to make sure you have told the court in advance you will be bringing moving pictures as evidence. You may also need to provide a copy to the opposition beforehand as well.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 13th Feb 18, 9:58 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    Gemini/County Court Business Centre
    I am part way through the witness statement, as I can not prove that anyone else was driving would I be better not pushing the no NTK was received? - Gladstones insist they sent one. If so, in the Witness Statement, do I still need to be vague about who was driving?
    The original claim form sites the Driver, not the Keeper It says 'The driver of vehicle registration ******* (the Vehicle') incurred the parking charges(s) If I am telling what happened on the day, how the ticket was incurred I would need to have been there!

    I am concentrating on the appalling lack of signage, I have the Beavis judgement as below, is it adequate?

    The Supreme Court judgment is binding case law, but that law may be beneficial to operators in some cases, and to motorists in others. For instance, Parking companies often quote the case of Vine v Waltham Forest to assert that a contract can be made by performance. However, that case was won by the motorist.

    In the Beavis case the penalty charge was present in huge letters in the largest font on the signage and with high contrast black on yellow, and was therefore found to be transparent and obvious to the motorist. There can be no doubt of the £85 charge.

    The Beavis judgment relies on the signage being obvious and the amount of the penalty being known to the consumer so they could make their decision whether to park and risk a huge penalty. Here are a few of the references to signage from the judgment:

    Para 100: “The charge is prominently displayed in large letters at the entrance to the car park and at frequent intervals within it” and “They must regard the risk of having to pay £85 for overstaying as an acceptable price for the convenience of parking there.”

    Para 108: “But although the terms, like all standard contracts, were presented to motorists on a take it or leave it basis, they could not have been briefer, simpler or more prominently proclaimed. If you park here and stay more than two hours, you will pay £85”

    Para 199: “What matters is that a charge of the order of £85 (reducible on prompt payment) is an understandable ingredient of a scheme serving legitimate interests. Customers using the car park agree to the scheme by doing so.”

    Para 205: “The requirement of good faith in this context is one of fair and open dealing. Openness requires that the terms should be expressed fully, clearly and legibly, containing no concealed pitfalls or traps. Appropriate prominence should be given to terms which might operate disadvantageously to the customer.”

    Para 287: In so far as the criterion of unconscionableness allows the court to address considerations other than the size of the penalty in relation to the protected interest, the fact that motorists entering the car park were given ample warning of both the time limit of their licence and the amount of the charge also supports the view that the parking charge was not unconscionable

    Case law from Beavis would therefore lead to the conclusion that a vital ingredient is that the signage be ample, the charge clear.

    I have the sign picture as well for the Beavis case.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Feb 18, 10:12 PM
    • 5,635 Posts
    • 4,322 Thanks
    KeithP
    I notice the title of your latest post refers to The County Court Business Centre.

    The case should now be with your local County Court.
    It is important that you send your witness statement to the right place.
    .
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 14th Feb 18, 5:34 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    County Court -
    Is anyone able to scrutinise this Witness Statement please

    In the COUNTY COURT !!!8211; Claim No:


    Between


    GEMINI PARKING SOLUTIONS LONDON LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    ******* *******(Defendant)

    WITNESS STATEMENT


    1. I ******** ********l of 888 *************** am the defendant in this case.

    2. I would like to apologise for the late submission of the witness statement and supporting evidence. I am an unrepresented litigant in person. The Claimant and their legal representative did not at any time supply me with relevant documents pertinent to the case. As vital documents were not supplied to me either at pre-action stage or during the court process, I made a request for additional time to submit my witness statement after receipt of any further documents the Claimant provided. (Paragraph 17 Defence Statement) The Claimants documents arrived on the 12th February. Paragraph 6 of my Defence Statement states !!!8216;I have reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant!!!8217; I also apologise for the length of this statement.

    3. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.

    4. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed. This is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    5. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number ********. As the date of the offence was ******/2016 it is impossible to say who was driving ******** on that particular day.


    6. Having read the Claimants Witness Statement I am left with a feeling that the Statement is produced as a !!!8216;One size fits all!!!8217; as there are claims made that I can not relate to such as a paragraphs 6 and 7 headed !!!8216;Unfair Charge!!!8217; I have not mentioned in my defence Unfair Charge, nor have I mentioned paragraph 10 and 11 !!!8216;No Authority to enforce Charges!!!8217; I did ask for !!!8216;Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to The Claimant!!!8217; I am satisfied that this has been met. Paragraph 19 Maximum can recover is on Notice to Keeper (!!!8220;NTK!!!8221 The sum on the NTK is 60.00 This paragraph goes on to discuss a figure of 100.00 stated on a sign, apparently, this is an applicable charge for failing to comply with the terms of the sign. I have no idea to what this is referring.

    7. The Claim submitted by Gemini names !!!8216;The Driver!!!8217; as having incurred the parking charge. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of, Schedule 4, The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Notice To Keeper (NTK) BPA CoP 20.4 and 20.6 POFA 9.1 and 9.2.

    a. No Notice to Keeper, with fully compliant statutory wording was served within the 14 or 28 days of the parking event. I accept that what seems to be an original (rather that a copy of the original) has now been received, I understand that if one was posted then it is presumed delivered, but may I point out there was no proof of postage included with the NTK received on 12th February




    8. The particulars of the Claim fail to meet PD16 7.3 -7.5 and CPR16.4
    7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:
    (1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing, and
    (2) any general conditions of sale incorporated in the contract should also be attached (but where the contract is or the documents constituting the agreement are bulky this practice direction is complied with by attaching or serving only the relevant parts of the contract or documents).
    7.4 Where a claim is based upon an oral agreement, the particulars of claim should set out the contractual words used and state by whom, to whom, when and where they were spoken.
    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.
    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include !!!8211;
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
    (b) if the claimant is seeking interest, a statement to that effect and the details set out in paragraph (2);
    (c) if the claimant is seeking aggravated damages(GL) or exemplary damages(GL), a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them;
    (d) if the claimant is seeking provisional damages, a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them; and
    (e) such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.
    (2) If the claimant is seeking interest he must !!!8211;
    (a) state whether he is doing so !!!8211;
    (i) under the terms of a contract;
    (ii) under an enactment and if so which; or
    (iii) on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and
    (b) if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state !!!8211;
    (i) the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;
    (ii) the date from which it is claimed;
    (iii) the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;
    (iv) the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and
    (v) the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.
    (Part 22 requires particulars of claim to be verified by a statement of truth
    9. Paragraph 20 of the Claimants Witness Statement mentions that Gemini is a member of the British Parking Association, (!!!8216;BPA!!!8217 which is an accredited trade association with in the parking sector. I mention this in relation to the BPA/COP Operational requirements in England and Wales with regard to signage - The relevant BPA/COP document is enclosed along with images contained on USB stick and a smaller selection of images are in print. These images are mainly screen shots taken from Google Maps, they show the lack of signage within the grounds of Stepping Hill Hospital.

    10. The Claimants Witness Statement also advises !!!8216;The signage of the Relevant Land is clear and unambiguous I dispute this entirely. No contract was entered into between The Claimant and the Driver or Registered Keeper, as there are no signs at any of the entrances to the hospital or any of the car parks. Unless you have prior knowledge that there are pay points and you search for them it is not obvious there are parking charges payable. It is denied that the signs used by this claimant can have created a fair or transparent contract with a driver. BPA CoP 18.2, 18.4 and 18.8.

    Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore,!!!8232;as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department forTransport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use. !!!8232;A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area. There may be reasons why this is impractical, for example:
    a. when there is no clearly defined car park entrance !!!8232;
    b. when the car park is very small !!!8232;
    c. at forecourts in front of shops and petrol filling !!!8232;stations !!!8232;
    d. at parking areas where general parking is not !!!8232;permitted
    11. Because of the lack of signage at the entrances to the hospital and also the individual car parks, signifying managed car parking and also the terms of contract, users are not given the opportunity to make an informed choice.
    12. A copy of the PrivateEye v Beavis judgement is enclosed also with a copy of the sign used by PrivateEye clearly displaying the additional cost incurred if the terms and conditions on the sign were infringed. For comparison I have enclosed Gemini!!!8217;s own copy (as sent to me) The Witness Statement quotes that Gemini rely on the case of ParkingEye v Beavis as an example of a valid contract. I dispute that Gemin!!!8217;s signage displays the relevant information as is clearly displayed in the ParkingEye signage. None of the limited number of signs on display at the location mentioned in the Claimants Witness Statement display any additional charges that may be incurred other than the 60.00 discounted to 25.00 if paid within 14 days. There is also a selection of images showing the signs used within Stepping Hill Hospital

    13. The alleged debt as described in the claim, are unenforceable penalties, being unconscionable charges exposed as offending against the penalty rule, in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

    14. The images taken of the car on the day are all time and date stamped between 00000000 and 00000000. One of the images shows the car with a PCN notice on the windscreen, as the keeper I have no knowledge what happened to this. I would also like to point out the printed image Drop off/Pick up Point, this allows 20 Minutes Maximum Stay, it doesn!!!8217;t indicate there is any payment necessary, there is nothing I found in the statement or the images that indicates that ******** had exceeded its 20 minute Drop off/Pick up allowance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Feb 18, 11:38 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would like to apologise for the late submission of the witness statement and supporting evidence.
    NO - don't draw attention to it, just file it with the Court (a paper file, like a ring binder, with all evidence) this week. Make it nice and readable, to get on the right side of the Judge.

    And send a few emails with the evidence & WS as attachments to the Claimant's solicitors.

    This is confusing, remove the 12th February as it confuses the matter:
    a. No Notice to Keeper, with fully compliant statutory wording was served within the 14 or 28 days of the parking event. I accept that what seems to be an original (rather that a copy of the original) has now been received, I understand that if one was posted then it is presumed delivered, but may I point out there was no proof of postage included with the NTK received on 12th February included with the Witness Statement and, despite the Claimant's duty to provide all such documents, in the interests of open dealings in the pre-action phase of correspondence, this is the first time I have seen such a document. I do not believe that the wording is compliant with the statutory wording in Schedule 4, including regarding the prescribed warning/28 deadline that must be stated about keeper liability.

    This is numbered '8' then followed by '7.1' etc., but this is NOT something for a witness statement, it's not your recollection of events or letters received, so delete it completely:
    8. The particulars of the Claim fail to meet PD16 7.3 -7.5 and CPR16.4
    7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:
    (1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing, and
    (2) any general conditions of sale incorporated in the contract should also be attached (but where the contract is or the documents constituting the agreement are bulky this practice direction is complied with by attaching or serving only the relevant parts of the contract or documents).
    7.4 Where a claim is based upon an oral agreement, the particulars of claim should set out the contractual words used and state by whom, to whom, when and where they were spoken.
    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.
    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include !!!8211;
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
    (b) if the claimant is seeking interest, a statement to that effect and the details set out in paragraph (2);
    (c) if the claimant is seeking aggravated damages(GL) or exemplary damages(GL), a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them;
    (d) if the claimant is seeking provisional damages, a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them; and
    (e) such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.
    (2) If the claimant is seeking interest he must !!!8211;
    (a) state whether he is doing so !!!8211;
    (i) under the terms of a contract;
    (ii) under an enactment and if so which; or
    (iii) on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and
    (b) if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state !!!8211;
    (i) the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;
    (ii) the date from which it is claimed;
    (iii) the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;
    (iv) the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and
    (v) the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.
    (Part 22 requires particulars of claim to be verified by a statement of truth


    Change needed, this is NOT an 'offence'!
    5. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number ********. As the date of the alleged contractual parking event offence was ******/2016 it is impossible to say who was driving ******** on that particular day, and no presumption is possible under the only applicable law (The POFA 2012, Schedule 4 - evidence number xx).
    Change needed here, they have not 'named' the driver:
    7. The Claim submitted by Gemini names states that 'The Driver' as having incurred the parking charge. However, no evidence has been submitted to identify the liable party, who cannot lawfully be assumed to be me, simply because I am the registered keeper of the vehicle.
    Do you have a copy of your car insurance from that time, to show more than one driver, as evidence that the car could have been driven by other family members and so no liability has been established.

    You must file all your evidence with this WS, numbered and in order.

    Think what might be useful to prove, on the balance of probabilities, what you are saying, and do you have photos, if not is there a Google Street View image from the right time in 2016 that shows scarce or missing signs?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-02-2018 at 11:53 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 18, 12:01 AM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    12. A copy of the PrivateEye v Beavis judgement is enclosed
    No it isn't. Not only will you NOT have the file any of PE v Beavis, and the judgement is HUGE, it doesn't especially help your side, is not part of a WS, and the claimant was PARKING Eye, not 'Private Eye'.

    So don't say you are attaching that judgment! Pointless, doesn't help you, and it's a huge amount of paper & ink to waste.

    The Beavis case sign is a different matter, you should have that as a comparison, to show what a really clear sign with a prominent large lettering parking charge, looks like:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eYdphoIIDgE/VpbCpfSTaiI/AAAAAAAAE10/5uFjL528DgU/s1600/Parking%2Bsign_001.jpg


    You #10 quotes the BPA CoP but has not put the words in inverted commas. Why not simply refer to the CoP, as a piece of numbered evidence? Put it in the file for the court like everything else, as a numbered piece of evidence, a printout from the BPA website, the page of the CoP that you want (make sure it's the right version of the CoP for that month on 2016).

    You can find all the Codes and dates they applied on the BPA website, get the right one.


    Remove this, it's not part of a WS and sounds like you don't know what you are arguing, so don't:
    13. The alleged debt as described in the claim, are unenforceable penalties, being unconscionable charges exposed as offending against the penalty rule, in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-02-2018 at 12:05 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 15th Feb 18, 11:00 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    In the COUNTY COURT !!!8211; Claim No: D3GF54AY


    Between


    GEMINI PARKING SOLUTIONS LONDON LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    mmmmm mmmmm (Defendant)


    WITNESS STATEMENT


    1. I mmmmmmm of mmmmmm 000 000 am the defendant in this case.

    2. I am an unrepresented litigant in person. The Claimant and their legal representative did not at any time supply me with relevant documents pertinent to the case. As vital documents were not supplied to me either at pre-action stage or during the court process, I made a request for additional time to submit my witness statement after receipt of any further documents the Claimant provided. (Paragraph 17 Defence Statement) The Claimants documents arrived on the 12th February. Paragraph 6 of my Defence Statement states !!!8216;I have reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant!!!8217; I also apologise for the length of this statement.

    3. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.

    4. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed. This is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    5. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number 0000000. As the date of the alledged contractual parking event was 00/00/00 it is impossible to say who was driving 000000 on that particular day and no presumption is possible under the only applicable law (The POFA 2012, Schedule 4 !!!8211; evidence number 01)

    6. Having read the Witness Statement I would like to clarify some points made, such as a paragraphs 6 and 7 headed !!!8216;Unfair Charge!!!8217; I have not mentioned in my defence Unfair Charge, nor have I mentioned paragraph 10 and 11 !!!8216;No Authority to enforce Charges!!!8217; I did ask for !!!8216;Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to The Claimant!!!8217; I am satisfied that this has been met. Paragraph 19 Maximum can recover is on Notice to Keeper (!!!8220;NTK!!!8221 The sum on the NTK is 60.00 This paragraph goes on to discuss a figure of 100.00 stated on a sign, apparently, this is an applicable charge for failing to comply with the terms of the sign. I have no idea to what this is referring.

    7. The Claim submitted by Gemini states that !!!8216;The Driver!!!8217; incurred parking charges. However no evidence has been submitted to identify the liable party, who cannot lawfully be assumed to be me, simply because I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of, Schedule 4, The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Notice To Keeper (NTK) BPA CoP 20.4 and 20.6 POFA 9.1 and 9.2.


    a. No Notice to Keeper, with fully compliant statutory wording was served within the 14 or 28 days of the parking event. I accept that what seems to be an original (rather that a copy of the original) has now been received, I understand that if one was posted then it is presumed delivered, but may I point out there was no proof of postage included with the Witness Statement and despite the Claimants duty to provide all such documents, in the interests of open dealings in the pre-action phase of correspondence, this is the first time I have seen such a document. I do not believe that the wording is compliant with the statutory wording in Schedule 4, regarding the prescribed warning/28 deadline that must be stated about keeper liability.

    8. Paragraph 20 of the Claimants Witness Statement mentions that Gemini is a member of the British Parking Association, (!!!8216;BPA!!!8217 which is an accredited trade association with in the parking sector. I mention this in relation to the BPA/COP Operational requirements in England and Wales with regard to signage - The relevant BPA/COP document is enclosed along with images contained on USB stick and a smaller selection of images are in print. These images are mainly screen shots taken from Google Maps, they show the lack of signage within the grounds of Stepping Hill Hospital.

    9. The Claimants Witness Statement also advises !!!8216;The signage of the Relevant Land is clear and unambiguous I dispute this entirely. No contract was entered into between The Claimant and the Driver or Registered Keeper, as there are no signs at any of the entrances to the hospital or any of the car parks. Unless you have prior knowledge that there are pay points and you search for them it is not obvious there are parking charges payable. It is denied that the signs used by this claimant can have created a fair or transparent contract with a driver. !!!8216;BPA CoP 18.2, 18.4 and 18.8!!!8217;
    !!!8216;Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore,!!!8232;as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department forTransport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use. !!!8232;A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area. There may be reasons why this is impractical, for example:
    a. when there is no clearly defined car park entrance !!!8232;
    b. when the car park is very small !!!8232;
    c. at forecourts in front of shops and petrol filling !!!8232;stations !!!8232;
    d. at parking areas where general parking is not !!!8232;permitted!!!8217;
    10. Because of the lack of signage at the entrances to the hospital and also the individual car parks, that should inform prospective users that managed car parking is in operation as well as the terms of contract, users are not given the opportunity to make an informed choice. !!!8216;BPA/COP Operational Requirements in England and Wales 19.3!!!8217;
    . !!!8216;19.3 If the driver breaks the contract, for example by not paying the tariff fee or by staying longer than the time paid for, or if they trespass on your land, they may be liable for parking charges. These charges must be shown clearly and fully to the driver on the signs which contain your terms and conditions!!!8217; !!!8232;

    11. A comparison image for the ParkingEye v Beavis sign is enclosed (evidence 05) ParkingEye clearly displaying the additional cost incurred if the terms and conditions on the sign were infringed as mentioned in the !!!8216;BPA/COP Operational Requirementsin England and Wales 19.3!!!8217;. The comparison is Gemini!!!8217;s own copy (as sent to me) The Witness Statement quotes that Gemini rely on the case of ParkingEye v Beavis as an example of a valid contract. I dispute that Gemin!!!8217;s signage displays the relevant information as is clearly displayed in the ParkingEye signage. None of the limited number of signs on display at the location mentioned in the Claimants Witness Statement display information about the additional charges that may be incurred, the only amounts quoted is the 60.00 charge, discounted to 25.00 if paid within 14 days.

    12. The letter before action that was included in the papers I received on the 12th February, is dated 31st August by which time I had moved house. The only information I gained from it was the PCN, it does not contain extensive information with regard to the alleged infringement as suggested by the Claimant in the Witness Statement Paragraph 14 Particulars of Claim.

    13. The images taken of the car on the day are all time and date stamped between (2 minute interval). One of the images shows the car with a PCN notice on the windscreen, as the keeper I have no knowledge what happened to this. I would also like to point out the printed image Drop off/Pick up Point, this allows 20 Minutes Maximum Stay, it doesn!!!8217;t indicate there is any payment necessary, there is nothing I found in the statement or the images that indicates that 0000000 had exceeded its 20 minute Drop off/Pick up allowance.


    14. I have a number of reasons why I do not agree that I am liable for the sum claimed, firstly, the signage does not meet the requirements in order for users to make an informed decision as to whether to use the car park, as there is none at the entrances to either the hospital or the car parks. BPA/COP Operational Requirements in England and Wales 18.2. I do not feel you have complied with this, to the detriment of the car park users.

    Secondly, Gemini!!!8217;s own pictures of my car show a time span of approximately two minutes, this does not establish that I should have paid for a ticket.

    Thirdly, BPA/COP Operational Requirements in England and Wales 19.2 and 19.3 states that all charges (for example by not paying the tariff fee or by staying longer than the time paid for) have to be shown clearly and fully on the signs which contain your terms and conditions. I do not feel you have complied with this.


    Enclosed
    BPA/COP two pages

    POFA 2012

    ParkingEye v Beavis + two images
    Gemini Drop off/Pick up image with 9 time stamped images
    A selection of images showing signs and lack of signs
    Defendant Defence Statement
    Directions Questionnaire covering letter, Claim Form and Gladstones Communication
    USB Stick containing 2 videos and images
    Last edited by Laura Anne; 15-02-2018 at 11:14 AM.
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 15th Feb 18, 11:04 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    I have lots of images taken off Google Maps, also (this is not my parking issue!) I have the insured looking for the policy that covers the date of the parking issue, there are two people insured on the car

    Thank you so much for your help, it is very much appreciated
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 18, 2:10 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, so state in the WS that there is 'more than one person in the family, who was insured to drive this car on the material date. Two insured directly on the vehicle policy and others who have fully comprehensive insurance policies which include driving other cars.'

    This is WRONG:
    POFA 9.1 and 9.2.
    It can't be para 9 of Sch 4, when this is alleged to have started as a windscreen PCN.

    You must use para 8, the one about NTKs that follow a windscreen PCN.

    You are doing brilliantly, make sure the version you take in person to the Court tomorrow is in a file, all neat and ordered, evidence pages all numbered, and with a contents sheet at the front with the claim number and page numbering. Get a receipt for handing the file to a court clerk, and do that IN THE MORNING because some county courts shut early on Fridays and won't accept any post or documents later on.

    Keep a full copy for yourself, same numbering, so you and the Judge will be on the same page.

    Email the other side, several emails with attachments (NOT ONE BIG EMAIL, TOO MANY ATTACHMENTS ARE TOO BIG TO EXPECT A SOLICITOR TO PRINT IT FROM ONE EMAIL). Then finally, print out your 'sent items' emails as proof that it all got sent, and add them to your file in case on the day their hired gun pretends they didn't get your WS & evidence.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-02-2018 at 2:14 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 15th Feb 18, 2:48 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    One last question - how do i make an application for cost pls?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Feb 18, 2:54 PM
    • 5,635 Posts
    • 4,322 Thanks
    KeithP
    One last question - how do i make an application for cost pls?
    Originally posted by Laura Anne
    The is guidance towards the bottom of post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky/pinned thread on how to create a costs schedule with some examples.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 18, 3:09 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You don't make any application. A costs schedule needs filing, ideally no later than 48 hrs before the hearing. Example in the NEWBIES thread post #2.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Feb 18, 3:15 PM
    • 1,691 Posts
    • 1,891 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    In other words, you are way way way ahead of the point you need to work on costs.
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 15th Feb 18, 4:46 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    County Court -
    Thank you - that is a relief, I've feel like I have seen enough documents for - certainly today, I did wonder if it needed to be filed with the Court papers and a copy to Gladstons.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    • 17,320 Posts
    • 21,706 Thanks
    Redx
    read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread and especially what LOC123 said about filing for costs over the last few months , including her costs breakdown
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 18, 6:02 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I did wonder if it needed to be filed with the Court papers and a copy to Gladstones
    Yes to both of those, but not yet, plenty of time to do your sums, add up your hours at £19 an hour, and make it hefty. Read the one by LoadsofChildren123 as linked in the NEWBIES thread. She is a solicitor and helped sassi get an order for costs on the indemnity basis for 'unreasonableness', of £1500, that they are still kicking and screaming to try to avoid paying.

    Imagine being so desperate as to try to wriggle out of 'unreasonable conduct' costs, as decided by a court. Take it on the chin, and learn from the conduct, I say.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 16th Feb 18, 11:12 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    I did see the LoadsofChildren post yesterday - it looked very complicated and my brain power was running low. Just for your information, Gladstones don't have an email address and it would seem doesn't have opening hours. I sent the papers by post yesterday - to get there today and you have to create an account to access their website! The Court papers are delivered as well
    Last edited by Laura Anne; 16-02-2018 at 11:17 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Gladstones don't have an email address
    They certainly do.

    Surprised you didn't use this forum to find it? Everything is here, use the forum as intended.

    Search for the obvious keywords. The search on here is great, if you change the default to SHOW POSTS, not show threads.

    The Court papers are delivered as well
    Jolly good, well done, now breathe and relax all weekend!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-02-2018 at 7:45 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 16th Feb 18, 10:13 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    I did find the leanne@gladstons on (I think it was) the law society website, I wasn't sure how up to date it was, or which office it referred to, as there are three. The office I need is at Knutsford - I wanted to be sure they had no excuse for saying they hadn't received it. I'm almost calm! Phew
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Feb 18, 12:00 AM
    • 53,942 Posts
    • 67,629 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    There are more on here, posted recently. I don't have the email to hand but several are here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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