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  • FIRST POST
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 3rd Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • 31Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre Claim
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre Claim 3rd Oct 17 at 9:41 PM
    Small Claims Court Letter
    Hi, I wonder if you can advise what is the best procedure to follow. A PCN incurred at Stepping Hill Hospital from GEMINI on 13/11/2016. No Notice to Keeper/Driver received, only communications from a third party solicitor. The latest communication is from County Court Business Centre in Northampton with PCN number not mentioned or time of ticket - includes charges for court fee and legal representative's costs.

    I was considering a defence of no Notice to Keeper/Driver and I thought it worth mentioning that the PCN number has never been mentioned in any correspondence. All correspondence has been demands from third party Gladstones who appear to have name and address of keeper and nothing else

    I am struggling to decide which is the best form of defence to choose.
Page 2
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 17th Oct 17, 9:01 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    Thank you all for your help, I will let you know how we get on
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 17, 10:15 PM
    • 16,645 Posts
    • 26,027 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    3. The Claimant has not provided any Parking Charge Notification Information BPA CoP 20.12 POFA 6.1 nor a Notice To Keeper (NTK) BOP CoP 20.4 and 20.6 POFA 9.1 and 9.2.
    What’s the ‘BOP CoP’?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 18th Oct 17, 2:14 AM
    • 518 Posts
    • 581 Thanks
    claxtome
    Well spotted Umkomaas.

    BOP CoP
    should be BPA CoP
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 1st Nov 17, 10:56 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    Hi everyone, I emailed the defence but was unable to get through to the CCBC on the phone to confirm receipt, however, the CCBC did confirm receipt by letter.

    Gladstones have sent a letter as well, the letter was sent to an incorrect address (I updated the address when I applied for the AOS) The letter from Gladstones reads:

    'We act for the Claimant and have notified the Court of our Client’s intention to proceed with the claim.

    Please find enclosed a copy of our Client’s completed Directions Questionnaire, which will be filed with the court upon their request. You will note we intend to request as special direction that the case be dealt with on the papers and without the need for an oral hearing.

    This request is sought simply because the matter is in our Client’s opinion relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate. We trust you agree.

    You will note our Client has elected not to mediate. Its decision is not meant to be in any way obstructive and is based purely on experience, as mediation has rarely proven beneficial in these types of cases. Notwithstanding this, our Client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward'

    Also sent with the letter as above was a form which is headed 'Directions Questionnaire' which only seems to offer mediation??

    Would I be correct in thinking that I should just ignore this form as it would be sent back to Gladstones?
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 1st Nov 17, 11:02 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    Thanks, I missed this
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 1st Nov 17, 3:20 PM
    • 1,692 Posts
    • 1,906 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You dont "ignore" the form

    This is a usual tactic by Gladstones - a terrible one, thought up by cretins, but worth a shot for their limited capacity I guess - to try to scare yo uinto thinking you wont get a hearing local to you

    You fill out your OWN N180 - either the one the court sends, or if that is delayed, just downlaod one - as per post 2 of the NEWBIES thread, and add a COVERING LETTER which responds to Gladstones pathetic attempts by pointing out the case is NOT simple, and you wish the hearing to be at your local court, as you are an individual and that is your RIGHT.
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 1st Nov 17, 6:56 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    Thank you for your advice, I have found the form and read the questions. So far, no PCN, no time of alleged infringement and now Gladstones still sending correspondence to incorrect address.

    With regard to the covering letter, does it need to be in any special format, any particular information or opinion disclosed. Would I email the form to CCBC?
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 1st Nov 17, 8:01 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    I have filled in the Form and found the thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5546325

    I am following that closely and see the information regarding the covering letter.

    Thank you so much for your advice
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 2nd Nov 17, 7:46 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    I've composed this for my covering letter, if you could give it a check for me thanks

    'Please find attached my completed Directions Questionnaire that includes a request for the hearing to be at my local court as is my right as an individual.

    Gladstones letter requests, that the hearing is dealt with on the papers alone as, in their Clients opinion the matter is relatively straightforward. I do not agree.

    The Particulars of Claim detailed on the County Court Business Centre Claim Form are so scant it is difficult to present a precise defence when the only information divulged is the date the parking charge was allegedly incurred.

    Gladstones letters are equally as scant as the Claim Form, in that they offer even less pertinent detail, no PCN, no date the alleged PCN was incurred, no address of where the parking terms were allegedly breeched.

    In the current climate of email and phone scams receiving a letter that contains only my name and address and car registration, demanding 160.00 is not professional behaviour.'
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Nov 17, 9:49 PM
    • 16,645 Posts
    • 26,027 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Looks OK to me.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 12th Feb 18, 3:40 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    Having filed the Directions Questionnaire, Gladstones were given until the 30th January 2018 to pay their 25.00 etc to take things further. Today all of their evidence arrived in the post, which included the PCN number which has never been quoted so far, along with photographs and witness statements. We did ask in the defence statement that if this were to happen we would ask for more time. How do I go about this? I have spoken to the Court who think it is too late to reschedule the date we were given, 27th February. Thank you for your continuing help and support
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 4:54 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,656 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    When did you send the court and claimant your own WS and evidence (NOT YOUR DEFENCE). The letter did tell you the date for both parties to exchange all the documents upon which you wish to rely?

    The NEWBIES thread clearly tells you 'DO NOT THINK THAT DEFENCE IS YOUR ONLY JOB'!

    Don't tell us you completely ignored that date? If you did, you need to get your WS and evidence together within the next 24 hours, ideally. Start by reading and copying from other similar claim threads.

    Read the NEWBES thread post #2 and look down for the examples of WS and evidence.

    It's not difficult, it's the story of what happened in your own words, 'I did this' plus tearing apart their own WS of rubbish (pull apart everything they say!) plus all the evidence YOU want to show. Numbered pages and numbered evidence, in a nice file for the court, take it in person with the claim number and 'WITNESS STATEMENT AND EVIDENCE FROM THE DEFENDANT' on the front.

    DO NOT PANIC, ideally this should be with the court & claimant tomorrow but if you need another day or two, JUST USE THAT TIME and get it right and submit the WS this week!! No panicking, it'll be OK.

    It's EASY to put together your WS and evidence so start right now as soon as you read this reply, get yourself back to the NEWBIES thread and search the forum for 'Witness Statement of truth' which should show some useful examples.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-02-2018 at 5:02 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 12th Feb 18, 6:05 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    I submitted my reply to the directions questionnaire on the 7th November, we received back at date for the hearing as the 27th, the only other date mentioned in that letter (which came from CCBC) was a paragraph which says 'Unless the claimant does by 4.00pm on the 30 January 2018 pay the court the trial fee of 25.00 or file a properly completed application (i.e. one which provides all the required information in the manner requested) for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 30 January 2018'

    There was nothing that mentioned any paperwork needing to be filed by the defendant other than point 7 which says 'Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing'

    Until Gladstones paperwork turned up today we were not aware the case was going ahead. Fortunately Gladstones office is very local so I can deliver it. If the court will be happy its only a couple of days late that is even better. I will get on to it now
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 8:45 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,656 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    There was nothing that mentioned any paperwork needing to be filed by the defendant other than point 7 which says 'Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing'
    Yes...so...that's what you had to do. By tomorrow...it's completely clear. By Order of the Court.

    The NEWBIES thread told you this was your next job.

    You would not have known if they paid the fee, no-one gives you a call to prompt you to do your side. Not sure what on earth you were expecting to happen. Let's see your WS and evidence.

    Plenty of examples in the NEWBIES thread, easy to write. Think about your evidence numbering, and mention each item by number, in your WS.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-02-2018 at 8:48 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 12th Feb 18, 11:19 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    I haven't done this before, so, given everything I did previously - i.e. Gladstones were notified after I filed my defence, I had to send notification to Gladsones direct when I filled in the Directions Questionnair, I assumed I would get something from either from the Court or from Gladstones that the new evidence had been filed as requested by the court. The CCBC online access doesn't work - I expect I should have checked over the phone, having said that, when I called CCBC today to check, the agent I spoke to seemed taken aback, to say the least, that I wasn't aware it was now with the Court. I am in the midst of the Witness Statement. Thank you for your advice.

    Thinking about it, I couldn't do a Witness Statement dismantling their claims until Gladstones sent us the paperwork they are relying on, as the claim form didn't even provide a PCN - the papers received today from Gladstones contain the PCN, photographs and their Witness Statement.
    Last edited by Laura Anne; 12-02-2018 at 11:33 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 11:29 PM
    • 53,987 Posts
    • 67,656 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I assumed I would get something from either from the Court or from Gladstones that the new evidence had been filed as requested by the court.
    No. The NEWBIES thread tells you what the stages are, and you've been here for months.

    The CCBC online access doesn't work
    The NEWBIES thread makes it clear you don't use MCOL at this stage.

    the agent I spoke to seemed taken aback, to say the least, that I wasn't aware it was now with the Court
    I'm not surprised, it's been with your local court since the Notice of Allocation, which told you what to do & when. Of course it's 'with the court' it has been for several weeks and you need to do your part.

    We will help you and if it ends up a day or two late it DOESN'T MATTER so don't worry.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • logician
    • By logician 13th Feb 18, 1:31 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    Having filed the Directions Questionnaire, Gladstones were given until the 30th January 2018 to pay their 25.00 etc to take things further. Today all of their evidence arrived in the post, which included the PCN number which has never been quoted so far, along with photographs and witness statements. We did ask in the defence statement that if this were to happen we would ask for more time. How do I go about this? I have spoken to the Court who think it is too late to reschedule the date we were given, 27th February. Thank you for your continuing help and support
    Originally posted by Laura Anne
    I submitted my reply to the directions questionnaire on the 7th November, we received back at date for the hearing as the 27th, the only other date mentioned in that letter (which came from CCBC) was a paragraph which says 'Unless the claimant does by 4.00pm on the 30 January 2018 pay the court the trial fee of 25.00 or file a properly completed application (i.e. one which provides all the required information in the manner requested) for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 30 January 2018'

    There was nothing that mentioned any paperwork needing to be filed by the defendant other than point 7 which says 'Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing'

    Until Gladstones paperwork turned up today we were not aware the case was going ahead. Fortunately Gladstones office is very local so I can deliver it. If the court will be happy its only a couple of days late that is even better. I will get on to it now
    Originally posted by Laura Anne
    You could have phoned the county court to check the Claimant had paid the hearing fee.

    You can't pre-empt what a judge or court may think.

    I would however either start or end your witness statement with an apology if this is slightly late -

    Point out that you are an unrepresented litigant in person.

    Make the point that the Claimant and their legal representative did not at any time supply you with relevant documents pertinent to the case prior to receipt of their Witness Statement.

    Also include that as vital documents were not supplied to you either at pre-action stage or during the court process, you made a request for additional time to submit your witness statement after receipt of any further documents the Claimant provided.


    NB a copy of the witness statement plus exhibits will need to served to Gladstones and a copy to Your county court - do not send to CCBC.
    Last edited by logician; 13-02-2018 at 1:49 AM. Reason: additional iinfo
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 13th Feb 18, 9:36 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    GEMINI/County Court Business Centre
    Thank you for your advice, may I ask how I submit video evidence?
    • Laura Anne
    • By Laura Anne 13th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Laura Anne
    Gemini/County Court Business Centre
    The notice of allocation told me that it would only be allocated if/when all the information provided was sent to them by the Claimant with a deadline of 30th January - so I understood it wasn't a done deal at that time, perhaps incorrectly as the Claimant did not send me the info, which I was relying to compose a defence, as mentioned it arrived yesterday.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Feb 18, 10:21 AM
    • 1,692 Posts
    • 1,906 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    VIdeo - cd/dvd/memory stick, and id suggest having your own method to view it on the day.
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