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  • FIRST POST
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 3rd Oct 17, 9:34 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 2Thanks
    mrodg
    AM Parking Services Ltd Parking Ticket
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 9:34 PM
    AM Parking Services Ltd Parking Ticket 3rd Oct 17 at 9:34 PM
    Hi, I hope you are doing well. On the 23/09/2017 a windscreen ticket from AM Parking Services was applied to a vehicle of which I am the registered keeper of. It was in a University Accommodation Car Park in Gillingham. The fine is £100 reduced to £60 if payed within 14 days. The contravention was that the driver allegedly overstayed the the 2 hour limit. Is there a chance of me as the registered keeper of the vehicle fighting this back and getting myself out of paying this extortionate fine?

    Thanks in Advance.
    Last edited by mrodg; 27-11-2017 at 8:46 AM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Oct 17, 9:58 PM
    • 16,938 Posts
    • 21,077 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 9:58 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 9:58 PM
    please read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, near the top of this forum , thank you
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    • 51,887 Posts
    • 65,539 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    Is there a chance of me fighting this back and getting myself out of paying this extortionate fine? telling the scammers to go swivel?
    Just to adjust your thinking here...please read NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 5th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    Hi Guys thanks for your quick reply having read the FAQs this is what I got:

    1.Complain to the Land Owner in this Case it would be the University Kent; what should I complain to them about?

    2. AM Parking Services is part of the BPA. so on the 26th day after receiving the PCN I should Appeal to them as the keeper. TO engage them and hopefully have them forget about the NTK

    3.Make the first appeal in order to get a code for POPLA; SO what ground could I actually appeal on here?

    4.For the Second stage - the POPLA appeal it says "See separate post #3 below for how to appeal to POPLA" I cant find this post so i am not sure how the POPLE appeal should look like .\

    Please can you confirm if the steps I mentioned above are the correct ones to take? and also please answer the question I left?

    Appreciate the help and thanks in advance.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,167 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 9:41 PM
    3.Make the first appeal in order to get a code for POPLA; SO what ground could I actually appeal on here?
    Originally posted by mrodg
    You tell us you've read the newbies thread.

    Did you not see in the very first post on that thread a sample appeal?

    There are two. Send the one appropriate to your PPC.
    I'll leave you to work out which one to send.
    No need to add anything to it or adjust it.
    Just send it.


    4.For the Second stage - the POPLA appeal it says "See separate post #3 below for how to appeal to POPLA" I cant find this post so i am not sure how the POPLE appeal should look like .\
    Originally posted by mrodg
    Here's a clue:
    This post is post #5 of this thread.

    With that knowledge, surely you can find out which is post #3 of a thread where you have already read, and quoted from, post #1?
    Last edited by KeithP; 05-10-2017 at 9:48 PM.
    .
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 11th Oct 17, 6:22 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:22 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:22 PM
    Okay following KeithP advice I will get the appeal template for BPA approved PPC and send it off so that they can receive it by the 18th of October which will be the 25th day from receiving the PCN.

    AM Parking Services provide two options for appealing one in letter and by email; which would you recommend is best?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,167 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    AM Parking Services provide two options for appealing one in letter and by email; which would you recommend is best?
    Originally posted by mrodg
    Surely you saw the lines immediately above that blue text you plan to send?

    Here it is again:
    Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:
    And immediately following that blue text it says:
    NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - ALWAYS USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP A SCREEN PRINT. USE ANY EMAIL APPEAL OPTION IF FIRMS OFFER IT.
    Last edited by KeithP; 11-10-2017 at 7:35 PM.
    .
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 19th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 17, 1:03 PM
    Appeal sent today as per the the newbies sticky and KeithP's advise. Now awaiting to hear back from them.
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 20th Nov 17, 11:34 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    • #9
    • 20th Nov 17, 11:34 AM
    • #9
    • 20th Nov 17, 11:34 AM
    Hi Everyone, thanks for your help so far. AM parking services replied today and this was their response:

    "I refer to your recent appeal regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on 23rd September 2017.

    In exercising our discretion to cancel a parking charge notice, the circumstances detailed in your representations have been considered and all reasons for appeal have been taken into consideration. However, on this occasion I cannot find any compelling grounds on which to cancel the PCN, the vehicle received a PCN for overstaying the free parking time limit as per the signage. There is ample signage within the car park informing motorists of the Terms & Conditions for parking. I have looked at photographic evidence of the vehicle and I have enclosed some of our photographic evidence for your perusal. In section 18.1 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice it states that “In all cases, the driver’s use of the land will be governed by your terms and conditions”. We as an approved operator of the BPA have provided this by evidence of the signage on site, informing the motorist to the full terms available within the car park. When entering private land where parking is permitted, the motorist is entering into a contract with us by remaining on this land. The terms and conditions of this land are displayed around this area. It is essential that these terms are adhered to in order to avoid a PCN, a contract was formed and you did not keep to the parking conditions to which a PCN was issued. The signage in the 2 hour free parking bays clearly state terms & conditions for parking. The onus is on the driver to read the signage and by parking your vehicle there you agree to the terms and conditions.

    I would like to advise that the PCN was issued correctly as our Parking Enforcement Officer has observed the vehicle in question parked over the free parking time limit and the Signage that is displayed in the area where vehicle **** *** was parked is fully BPA compliant and informs all motorists that it is 2 HOUR FREE PARKING, NO RETURN WITHIN 3 HOURS. We cannot confirm the arrival or departure time of vehicle **** *** only the date and time it was first noted parked whilst parked in a 2 HOUR FREE PARKING bay and the date and time of which the PCN was applied to the vehicle. PCN ****** was issued on 23rd September 2017 and allows for twenty eight days including the date of issue to pay £100 or a reduced amount of £60 would be accepted if paid within 14 days. On appraisal of the evidence there are insufficient grounds for waiving the PCN on this occasion. We are authorised to accept a payment of £60, we have kept the reduced payment amount in place until Friday 22nd December 2017.

    Please contact 0845 519 2773 and make arrangements for the payment of PCN ****** or Secure online payment can be made through PayPal via *their website* and following the link ‘Payments’ or payment can be sent via crossed cheque or postal order made payable to AM Parking Services Ltd and sent to AM Parking Services Ltd, Payments, PO Box 1260, Kent, ME14 9LZ, please write the reference stated above on the reverse of the cheque. If the reduced payment of £60 or no further appeal via POPLA has been received by Friday 22nd December 2017 then PCN ****** will increase to its original amount of £100 and will be passed to a third party Debt Recovery Company where additional charges may be applied. We have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. You have a right to appeal via POPLA within 28 days from the date of this letter, using our verification code which is ***/***/*/***. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.’ Once you have appealed to POPLA you should be aware that you are no longer entitled to the reduced amount and that the full amount of £100 is then payable if you are unsuccessful. "
    Last edited by mrodg; 20-11-2017 at 5:46 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 20th Nov 17, 11:38 AM
    • 33,609 Posts
    • 17,510 Thanks
    Quentin
    Now read up on popla appealing in the Newbies FAQ
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,167 Thanks
    KeithP
    Mrodg, it would be a good idea to remove the PCN number from your latest post, and unless you're happy for some-one else to appeal on your behalf - perhaps admitting everything - you might want to remove your PoPLA code too.
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Nov 17, 1:32 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
    • 24,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    We cannot confirm the arrival or departure time of vehicle XXXXXXX only the date and time it was first noted parked whilst parked in a 2 HOUR FREE PARKING bay and the date and time of which the PCN was applied to the vehicle
    If they don’t know entry/exit times, what period of parking was actually shown on the ticket?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 20th Nov 17, 5:50 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    @quentin okay thanks will look into it

    @KeithP thanks O have edited my post now

    @Umkommas good point. on the ticket at the top it just says "date 23/09/2017" and "time 07.56"
    Then further down it says the reason of the Notice: "Overstayed the free parking period. Hrs 2
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Nov 17, 6:06 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
    • 24,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    @Umkommas good point. on the ticket at the top it just says "date 23/09/2017" and "time 07.56"
    Then further down it says the reason of the Notice: "Overstayed the free parking period. Hrs 2
    Unless they can evidence that with confirmed times they’re struggling.

    Do you still have the windscreen ticket issued by the parking gimp? What times are shown on that?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 20th Nov 17, 6:16 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    @Umkommas the date, time and the reason for Notice I quoted above are all from the windscreen ticket.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Nov 17, 6:22 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
    • 24,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    @Umkommas the date, time and the reason for Notice I quoted above are all from the windscreen ticket.
    Originally posted by mrodg
    Then I think they are struggling and you need to stress this within your POPLA appeal.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 23rd Nov 17, 9:52 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    Right along with the template Popla Appeal found in this forum, I am thinking to add the following points as my main and specific grounds of appeal

    The fact that they haven't sent my a NTK within the 57 day period.

    Also the point @Umkommas mentioned about them not knowing the drivers entry and exit time to the car park... But How would argue this? What if they observed the car for the full 2 hour period and then applied the ticket?
    Last edited by mrodg; 26-11-2017 at 11:11 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Nov 17, 10:40 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
    • 24,779 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What if they observed my car for the full 2 hour period and then applied the ticket?
    They would need to prove it. They have to prove anything they claim.

    All ‘What if’s’ are for another day - they would need to to provide you with details. If it goes to court they can’t simply rock up and produce ambush evidence like pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Nov 17, 12:37 AM
    • 51,887 Posts
    • 65,539 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am thinking to add the following points as my main and specific grounds of appeal:

    The fact that they haven't sent my a NTK within the 57 day period.
    Yes, as long as you don't shoot your toes off by then writing THIS!

    Also the point @Umkommas mentioned about them not knowing my entry and exit time to the car park.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • mrodg
    • By mrodg 24th Nov 17, 1:20 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    mrodg
    They have not produced any evidence of the drivers alleged contravention, they admitted that they do not have the entry and exit times into the car park. Could someone advise on how best can I word this in my Popla appeal ?

    Thanks again you guys for the continuous help really appreciate.
    Last edited by mrodg; 27-11-2017 at 8:41 AM.
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