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  • FIRST POST
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 3:35 PM
    • 72Posts
    • 40Thanks
    Mark64uk
    Refusing to pay renewal fee
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:35 PM
    Refusing to pay renewal fee 3rd Oct 17 at 3:35 PM
    Hi All,

    I moved into property in Nov 2015 and renewed 2016 i had an email last week saying that the landlord would offer another 12 month term but i now had to pay a £150 " Documentation fee" i questioned why i never had to pay this before and they replied as i wasn't informed as a good will gesture they have now reduced it to £110 nice of them eh ?

    I told them that the fee was unfair and that i should of been told about this when they introduced it and also pointed out they the government recognises that these fees were unfair and putting in steps to ban them there reply

    "The government have not yet announced any changes to the law regarding fees and therefore the £150 tenancy documentation fee is still chargeable."

    Basically we know they are wrong but tough.

    There is a clause in the tenancy that allows them to increase the rent by a certain % each yeah i think they are now using this fee to get round this as it effectively doubles my rent increase.

    Now i'm standing my ground on this because £110 to send a couple of emails and copy and past my name and address into a PDF is a SCAM !

    I've asked to go on a periodic tenancy to which they replied they don't offer them and a s21 was issued today and i was told if i wanted to vacate before this expires then i had to give one months notice ( Is this because i will in fact be on periodic after Nov 21st s21 expires on 5 dec)

    My question is should i just pay or stand my ground i'm willing to take this to the end as its the agent who is serving the s21 not the landlord i highly doubt the landlord knows as my whole estate is owned by an investment company and all 56 houses on the plot are rentals the agent indicated that i could pay the fee before the s21 expires i just think i'm being blackmailed by them.

    Thanks

    Mark

Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 3:39 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,069 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:39 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:39 PM
    Have you asked the LL what he or she wants?


    It's not a 'scam' at all, it's an offer of service / goods, in exchange for money.


    Personally I'd ignore it, but each to their own. If the notice is valid, you could end up being evicted.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 3rd Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • 42,330 Posts
    • 49,177 Thanks
    G_M
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    Go periodic.

    Read:

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 3:49 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:49 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:49 PM
    Have you asked the LL what he or she wants?


    It's not a 'scam' at all, it's an offer of service / goods, in exchange for money.


    Personally I'd ignore it, but each to their own. If the notice is valid, you could end up being evicted.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I understand its a service but £150 for this small service is a Joke

    I don't know who to contact as the landlord is listed as a company care of the agents.

    I'm not really fussed about being evicted to be honest i'm just not paying such an inflated fee.

    Go periodic.

    Read:

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    Tried that

    Moving forward there are a couple of options we could take

    1) Allow the tenancy to roll over to a periodic tenancy using the same
    terms and conditions but at the new rental rate ( no need for any
    documents)

    2) Sign a 12 month tenancy without the documentation fee the same as
    last year.

    If none of the above are acceptable then we will seek alternative
    accommodation.

    Many thanks

    Mark


    They replied

    The Landlord requires all tenants to be on a 12 month fixed term
    contract and does not offer periodic/rolling contracts.

    • greendoor665
    • By greendoor665 3rd Oct 17, 4:04 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 91 Thanks
    greendoor665
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:04 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:04 PM
    They can't 'not offer' a periodic tenancy, it's the law and happens automatically if you stay in the property past the fixed term.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,069 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:05 PM
    Well in that case just ignore and see what happens
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 3rd Oct 17, 4:10 PM
    • 3,591 Posts
    • 3,634 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:10 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:10 PM
    What about OP's statement that they already received an S21 notice?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 4:11 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:11 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:11 PM
    They can't 'not offer' a periodic tenancy, it's the law and happens automatically if you stay in the property past the fixed term.
    Originally posted by greendoor665
    I know they just want there fee i was emailed this yesterday

    I am sorry to hear that you will not be renewing. The Landlord will
    now require me to serve notice on the property and this will confirm
    your vacate date. If you would like to vacate sooner, we just require
    one months' written notice from yourselves.


    I assume the one month notice is due to being on a periodic after the 21st so they want me to abide by the rules of one month notice but wont recognise a periodic tenancy so i replied this to see if they would admit i'm on one

    I also noticed i am able to vacate before the end of the s21 expiry why would i have to give one month notice when the tenancy ends in nov? It cant be that the tenancy has rolled over to periodic as you dont offer these even though its the law if a fixed term continues so why the notice?



    Well in that case just ignore and see what happens
    Yeah i've told them i'm not going to be moving out on the 5th of December when the s21 expires and ill continue to pay the increased rent up until the eviction date i think ill just leave it that.
    Last edited by Mark64uk; 03-10-2017 at 4:56 PM.

    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 4:13 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:13 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 4:13 PM
    What about OP's statement that they already received an S21 notice?
    Originally posted by DoaM

    Yes got this today via email saying that i have till the 5/12 the fixed term ends 21/11


    I am writing to inform you that the Landlord requires possession of the property and therefore has asked us to serve notice to terminate your tenancy.

    Please find enclosed a Section 21 Notice which will expire on 05 December 2017.


    And attached was a PDF with the s21

    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 3rd Oct 17, 4:17 PM
    • 3,591 Posts
    • 3,634 Thanks
    DoaM
    Does the start date of an S21 notice have to be (at the earliest) the end date of the fixed term? (i.e. the tenant has 2 months after the fixed term end date). Or can an S21 be issued 2 months before the fixed term end date such that the tenant has to leave at the end date?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • aneary
    • By aneary 3rd Oct 17, 4:18 PM
    • 817 Posts
    • 704 Thanks
    aneary
    Is a s21 valid if it's due to not renewing on a fixed term contract?

    Do you have somewhere to go if you are evicted?
    • singhini
    • By singhini 3rd Oct 17, 4:24 PM
    • 223 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    singhini
    I no nothing about tenancy agreements but I would check with citizens advice that if you do nothing then does the tenancy auto roll into a periodic tenancy.


    many many years ago (about 25) my dad used to rent properties out via an estate agent and they were dodgy (they would say one thing to us and the opposite to the tenants i.e. "the landlord only likes 6 month contracts" while telling us that "the tenants are only looking for a 6 month contract). we later discovered they would move tenants from one house to another every 6 months and charge both the tenants and the landlords finders fees which were 50% of the first months rent.
    Last edited by singhini; 03-10-2017 at 8:38 PM.
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 4:24 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    Is a s21 valid if it's due to not renewing on a fixed term contract?

    Do you have somewhere to go if you are evicted?
    Originally posted by aneary

    Were the perfect tenants rent always paid in full on time every time never had and complaints made against us we have had someone out twice due to snagging issues as the house was a new build at the time of moving in thats it.

    I have the funds available to move out and as i can see it dragging out over a few months ill have steps in place to make sure we have somewhere to go.

    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 4:31 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,069 Thanks
    Comms69
    What about OP's statement that they already received an S21 notice?
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Well they said they don't care if they get evicted so...
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 3rd Oct 17, 5:27 PM
    • 15,390 Posts
    • 21,013 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    The LLs details should be on the deeds...

    Just WRITE to the letting agent and say that you are happy renting the house, but do not wish to pay their unnecessary fees, so you are therefore happy to go onto a rolling contract after your fixed term ends, and you are sure the LL will also be happy with this as you are a reliable tenant who wishes to remain long term in the property.

    Keep paying rent and do nothing for now.

    This sounds like a revenge eviction for refusing to pay their unnecessary fees!
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    On every email i always say i'm willing to renew but not paying the fee, ill just keep paying the rent hopefully it will get escalated internally and common sense will be applied at some point.

    • aneary
    • By aneary 3rd Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    • 817 Posts
    • 704 Thanks
    aneary
    The letting agent doesn't care.

    They get you out they get new fees from the new tenant and probably finders fees.

    The LL loses out as there will be a void period, unless the LL is alerted to this you will be evicted.
    • Mark64uk
    • By Mark64uk 3rd Oct 17, 6:04 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Mark64uk
    I agree with you they don't care but at some point there going to have to inform their client the landlord that they are starting court proceedings against there rent paying tenant for failing to pay inflated fees.

    I was thinking of sending one final email tomorrow regarding the issue basically saying i'm willing to pay £25 to cover one hour of a persons time to copy my name into the PDF template and email it to me if that's not acceptable ill await the eviction date from the courts.

    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 3rd Oct 17, 6:15 PM
    • 11,202 Posts
    • 15,655 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    The letting agent can’t go to court to get the possession order it would need to be the landlord or the landlord’s solicitor. I’d put money on there being no court proceedings if you just keep living in the property and paying the new, higher rent.

    I wouldn’t even bother contacting the letting agent and offering £25.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 3rd Oct 17, 6:26 PM
    • 42,330 Posts
    • 49,177 Thanks
    G_M
    1) Stop makig offers and emailing. The agent has made their position perfectly clear and as others have said is just interested in their fee. They will not change their mind

    2) The landlord cannot 'not offer' a periodic - it happens by law automatically - see link

    3) the S21 may or may not be valid. The timescale sounds right (2 calender months) but worth checking all the other factors. See my link for full details. If it's invalid, don't tell them. Just wait and contest it at court

    4) the agent cannot apply to court. The LL has to (or a legal representative ie solicitor). The LL is unlikely to want to evict a tenant who is otherwise sound - it's just the agent that wants this for their fee and /or new tenant-find fees.

    5) if you move to a periodic (ie by staying on the 21st[?] November), continue paying the same rent. The rent can then only be changed by service of a S13 Notice.

    6) no harm contacting the LL. If the address provided for serving notice on the LL is c/o the agent then

    a) pay £3 to Land Registry here to check name/address of property owner, or
    b) write to the agent quoting the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 section 1

    See:

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

    * Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?
    Last edited by G_M; 03-10-2017 at 6:31 PM.
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