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  • FIRST POST
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 3rd Oct 17, 3:07 PM
    • 2,238Posts
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    oldwiring
    I and wife sent R40s to HMRC
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:07 PM
    I and wife sent R40s to HMRC 3rd Oct 17 at 3:07 PM
    During 2016/7 we placed our investments in the hands of professionals. Subsequently we received from them a composite tax certificate for our joint account with them that included interest paid with tax deducted, dividends, and small amounts from foreign income and PIDs. Also included were gains from surrendered insurance bonds.

    My income is well within standard rate band; my wife non taxpayer, who passed her Personal Allowance to me.

    Wanting to pay our dues, or hopefully receive any over-payment refunded, we submitted R40s on 6 September, splitting the elements on the joint certificate and the gsin on the bond equally.

    At the weekend I received Form P2, that claimed there was an estimated under-payment for 2017/8 of £115. Moreover my code had been reduced from 393M to 170L, because for a reason I cannot see, the allowance from my wife had been removed.

    Since them I have been on my personal tax account, and have noticed my code has changed twice, reducing each time.

    There is supposed to be a chat service, found with difficulty, which
    just refers you to unhelpful pages, and telephones are always engaged. Correspondence tracker also says I sent a letter at the end of August of which I have no recollection of copy.

    What the dickens are they up to? Advice, please, how to deal with their debacle.
Page 1
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 3rd Oct 17, 3:36 PM
    • 3,740 Posts
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    sheramber
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:36 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:36 PM
    Phone when phones open at at 8am or slightly before.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 3rd Oct 17, 6:29 PM
    • 1,752 Posts
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    Dazed and confused
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 6:29 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 6:29 PM
    Although you don't mention it by name I'm guessing your wife applied for Marriage Allowance and gave up 10% of her Personal Allowance.

    This is normally stopped for one of three reasons,
    you or your wife cancel it or,
    one (or both) of you are higher rate payers or,
    you have already claimed Married Couple's Allowance (which is financially more beneficial than Marriage Allowance)

    From your op it seems neither of you are higher rate payers and you seem surprised at the new tax code so I can only presume you (or your wife) haven't deliberately cancelled it which just leaves Married Couple's Allowance.

    Does the new tax code (the one you got through the post) include Married Couple's Allowance?

    If not is it possibly you could actually be a higher rate payer in 2016:17? Would the dividends or chargeable gain from the bonds(?) make that possible. It can get complicated with dividends and Marriage Allowance, particularly within the £5000 dividend income now taxed at 0%.

    And ignore the "tax codes" on your personal tax account, they are irrelevant, only the one you got through the post is actually going to be used. If the code includes an in year adjustment (the £115?) then what you see on your personal tax account changes every day because it seems to recalculate the tax restriction necessary to collect the £115 every day but only the code posted out to you is actually used. There was a long thread on here about this a few weeks back.
    Last edited by Dazed and confused; 03-10-2017 at 6:31 PM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 3rd Oct 17, 11:07 PM
    • 23,107 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 11:07 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 11:07 PM
    From your op it seems neither of you are higher rate payers and you seem surprised at the new tax code so I can only presume you (or your wife) haven't deliberately cancelled it which just leaves Married Couple's Allowance.


    One of them would have to be at least 82 to be eligible - OP says

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72689828#post72689828

    We're both 80, and she has done the done the MA thing.
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 8:32 AM
    • 2,238 Posts
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    oldwiring
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:32 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Oct 17, 8:32 AM
    @xylophone When I mentioned my wife and allowances, I was referring to the amount of Personal Allowance she is permitted to transfer.
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 4th Oct 17, 10:09 AM
    • 1,726 Posts
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    polymaff
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:09 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Oct 17, 10:09 AM
    No chance that you both applied for MAT?

    What was the interest paid with tax deducted?
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 11:45 AM
    • 2,238 Posts
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    oldwiring
    • #7
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:45 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:45 AM
    What was on my R40(M)-
    [UR=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B16WAVYKSZrBUWxjRl8tQ3NmQ2c] here[/URL]
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 11:47 AM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    • #8
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:47 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Oct 17, 11:47 AM
    What was on my R40(M)-
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B16WAVYKSZrBUWxjRl8tQ3NmQ2c
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 4th Oct 17, 12:05 PM
    • 2,401 Posts
    • 1,613 Thanks
    BoGoF
    • #9
    • 4th Oct 17, 12:05 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Oct 17, 12:05 PM
    The inclusion of the Chargeable Event Gain is taking you into 40% bracket.....which means you weren't entitled to transfer wifes personal allowance. I suspect HMRC have issued a calculation showing underpayment and you have not received this. You need to phone ask for this to be reissued
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th Oct 17, 1:32 PM
    • 23,107 Posts
    • 13,391 Thanks
    xylophone
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gains-on-uk-life-insurance-policies-hs320-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs320-gains-on-uk-life-insurance-policies-2015
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 3:56 PM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    The inclusion of the Chargeable Event Gain is taking you into 40% bracket.....which means you weren't entitled to transfer wifes personal allowance. I suspect HMRC have issued a calculation showing underpayment and you have not received this. You need to phone ask for this to be reissued
    Originally posted by BoGoF
    I shall do what @BoGoF suggests, but what really galls is the removal of the transferable allowance for the current 17/18 year seemingly (to me) on the assumption that a chargeable event will repeat itself. We now have no insurance policies.
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 4th Oct 17, 4:17 PM
    • 1,726 Posts
    • 741 Thanks
    polymaff
    I shall do what @BoGoF suggests, but what really galls is the removal of the transferable allowance for the current 17/18 year seemingly (to me) on the assumption that a chargeable event will repeat itself. We now have no insurance policies.
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    Don't feel picked upon. HMRC's "stealth" strategy is being applied across the board.
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 4:37 PM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    $£&@+ Their automatic call system! But apparently anything about the R40 cannot be queried until after 11 October, having been sent on 6 September.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 4th Oct 17, 4:58 PM
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    BoGoF
    Does the P2 defenitely show the transferred allowance has been removed?
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 5:17 PM
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    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    Put it this way! It was on earlier P2s.

    I don't suppose I can deal with the P2 until I've dealt with the R40 response..
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 4th Oct 17, 5:21 PM
    • 2,401 Posts
    • 1,613 Thanks
    BoGoF
    But the reduction in code could be the underpaid tax for 2016/17 being coded out.

    Your personal tax account should show an estimate of your income for 2017/18 - what does it show. If too high you can amend it
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 4th Oct 17, 9:43 PM
    • 3,740 Posts
    • 2,757 Thanks
    sheramber
    If the transfer has been disallowed for 2016/17 that ay have stopped the transfer.
    you may have to apply again for 2017/18
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 4th Oct 17, 11:26 PM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    @ sheramber I had wondered, if reapplication might be required.
    As initial permission for the transfer had to be submitted by the spouse with spare Personal Allowance, I'm guessing she have to do the honours?
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 5th Oct 17, 3:20 PM
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    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    @BoGoF The estimates for my two work pensions and state pension are ~ £500 too high, but my bank account yesterday shows a credit of a very similar amount, of course usefully with no reference, our account being joint.

    The P2 also "Less adjustment for estimated tax yiu owe this year £1087". I can't square that with the £115 mentioned earlier. But no mind!

    How confusing! I think that I'll wait to see if it becomes clearer, and also get a picture of what income the investments produced in the first half.

    In meantime I'll review my wife's account. Was it only interest that changed to being non taxable in 2016/7 to £1000?
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