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  • FIRST POST
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 3rd Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    • 208Posts
    • 89Thanks
    fiisch
    Paid Annual Leave on Maternity
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    Paid Annual Leave on Maternity 3rd Oct 17 at 1:11 PM
    My wife has recently completed 9 months of maternity leave at her employer. There have been some issues with said employer, and she's taken this opportunity to leave and find alternative part-time work.


    Maternity Leave started December 2016 and finished September 15th 2017. She was entitled to 20 days (+ bank holidays) annual leave per year, and the holiday year ran from 1st January 2017.


    Her final pay completely omitted any pay for holiday entitlement - when chased, the company begrudgingly paid up, but I'm not completely satisfied that they have done this correctly.


    Her hourly rate was £12, and she worked 8.5 days, .5hr of which was an unpaid lunch break.


    Therefore, by my calculations:


    15th September is 258th day. 258/352 * 20 = 14.6.


    14.6 * (£12 * 8) = £1401.60




    1). Are my above assumed calculations correct? I am working on the assumption Bank Holidays are not included.


    2). Her employer has deducted tax and NI from her wages. Her earnings this year will be below the tax threshold (circa £8k) - assuming this will come back to her with normal tax adjustment.


    3). Employer has rounded holiday entitlement down to 14 days - is this fair/ethical?


    4). Employer has paid for 7.5 hour days, not 8 hour days (claims that when they work they are entitled to an additional 2 x 15 minute breaks that they do not get paid for when on annual leave) - I have never heard someone's day rate being different based on whether or not it's annual leave!


    She has actually been paid £1014, which is nearly £400 less than I had anticipated. £243 of this difference is explained by tax (£130.62) and NI (£113)....


    Is this worth quibbling, or is it all fair and above board and will work itself out?
    Last edited by fiisch; 03-10-2017 at 1:18 PM.
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,066 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:23 PM
    My wife has recently completed 9 months of maternity leave at her employer. There have been some issues with said employer, and she's taken this opportunity to leave and find alternative part-time work.


    Maternity Leave started December 2016 and finished September 15th 2017. She was entitled to 20 days (+ bank holidays) annual leave per year, and the holiday year ran from 1st January 2017. - she's entitled to 28 days leave. (Often best to ignore + bank holiday stuff) - so by 15 September she would have approx. 22.5 days A/L


    Her final pay completely omitted any pay for holiday entitlement - when chased, the company begrudgingly paid up, but I'm not completely satisfied that they have done this correctly. - well it depends on a number of factors


    Her hourly rate was £12, and she worked 8.5 days, .5hr of which was an unpaid lunch break. So £96 per day (presumably 5 days a week?)


    Therefore, by my calculations:


    15th September is 258th day. 258/352 * 20 = 14.6. - not quite - it's around 22.5 days (assuming BH weren't paid during maternity leave? not sure if that's possible to be honest)


    14.6 * (£12 * 8) = £1401.60




    1). Are my above assumed calculations correct? I am working on the assumption Bank Holidays are not included. - why not? - Was she paid full wages for the bank holidays to date?


    2). Her employer has deducted tax and NI from her wages. Her earnings this year will be below the tax threshold (circa £8k) - assuming this will come back to her with normal tax adjustment. - presumably, assuming she wont be working again this financial year


    3). Employer has rounded holiday entitlement down to 14 days - is this fair/ethical? - possibly


    4). Employer has paid for 7.5 hour days, not 8 hour days (claims that when they work they are entitled to an additional 2 x 15 minute breaks that they do not get paid for when on annual leave) - I have never heard someone's day rate being different based on whether or not it's annual leave! - What were her contracted hours? It's not different. But the important figure is the total weekly hours paid


    She has actually been paid £1014, which is nearly £400 less than I had anticipated. £243 of this difference is explained by tax....


    Is this worth quibbling, or is it all fair and above board and will work itself out?
    Originally posted by fiisch


    Need some more info
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 3rd Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    • 30,833 Posts
    • 18,432 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:39 PM
    Summary

    Maternity Leave started December 2016 and finished September 15th 2017.

    She was entitled to 20 days (+ bank holidays) annual leave per year, and the holiday year ran from 1st January 2017.

    5.6 weeks is statutory

    Her hourly rate was £12, and she worked 8.5 days, .5hr of which was an unpaid lunch break.

    40 hr weeks @ £12ph £480


    Therefore, by my calculations:

    15th September is 258th day. 258/352 * 20 = 14.6.


    14.6 * (£12 * 8) = £1401.60


    easier in weeks
    37/52 * 5.6 * £480 = £1912.62


    1). Are my above assumed calculations correct? I am working on the assumption Bank Holidays are not included.

    Statutory minimum is 5.6 weeks they should not deduct the BH or paythem when on maternity

    2). Her employer has deducted tax and NI from her wages. Her earnings this year will be below the tax threshold (circa £8k) - assuming this will come back to her with normal tax adjustment.

    should do

    3). Employer has rounded holiday entitlement down to 14 days - is this fair/ethical?

    can't round down

    4). Employer has paid for 7.5 hour days, not 8 hour days (claims that when they work they are entitled to an additional 2 x 15 minute breaks that they do not get paid for when on annual leave) - I have never heard someone's day rate being different based on whether or not it's annual leave!

    holidays pay is based on a weeks pay they get paid 480pw that's the holiday pay

    She has actually been paid £1014, which is nearly £400 less than I had anticipated. £243 of this difference is explained by tax (£130.62) and NI (£113)....


    Is this worth quibbling, or is it all fair and above board and will work itself out?
    Originally posted by fiisch
    they are way down definitely worth raising the flaws in the calculations.
    Last edited by getmore4less; 03-10-2017 at 1:45 PM.
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 3rd Oct 17, 1:45 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:45 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:45 PM
    Thank you both - revised numbers :


    - £12 (hourly rate) * 7.5 hours = day rate of £90;
    - Maternity leave ended 15th September 2015. 15th September is the 258th day of the year, therefore 258/352 = 0.733;
    - Annual Leave Entitlement = 28 days (20 days holiday + 8 days Bank Holiday);
    = 28 * 0.733 = 20.523;
    - 20.523 * 90 (day rate) = £1846.05 (before tax/NI deductions).


    Makes a big difference - we're over £800 short. Email on it's way to the Director (it's a small company!).
    • Energize
    • By Energize 3rd Oct 17, 1:51 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Energize
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:51 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:51 PM
    Where does 258/352 * 20 = 14.6 come from? There are 356 days in a year, this instead gives 14.49 which would be rounded to the nearest half day or day which gives 14 days holiday and is considered ethical because it statistically works in the employees favour just over half the time.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 1:52 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,066 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:52 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 1:52 PM
    Where does 258/352 * 20 = 14.6 come from? There are 356 days in a year, this instead gives 14.49 which would be rounded to the nearest half day or day which gives 14 days holiday and is considered ethical because it statistically works in the employees favour just over half the time.
    Originally posted by Energize


    Uhm......
    • Energize
    • By Energize 3rd Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Energize
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    Uhm......
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Oh dear, haha. I have only just woken up!

    Still comes to 14 days holiday using his figure of 20 days accrued though.
    Last edited by Energize; 03-10-2017 at 2:10 PM.
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 3rd Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:10 PM
    Good spot.... 365... or 365.25 to be exact!! Not quite sure where I got 352 from - trying to do much at once!


    So it should be 258/365 = so 19.79 days.


    So 19.5 rounded down to nearest 1/2 day, * 90...?
    • Energize
    • By Energize 3rd Oct 17, 2:16 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Energize
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:16 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:16 PM
    19.79 would be rounded up to 20, I don't know enough about maternity leave to know whether bank holidays that have occurred so far would be deducted from pay though.
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 3rd Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    My initial thoughts were public holiday was extra, but based on some of the earlier comments I have checked ACAS and indeed, Comms69 comments re.: consider 28 days instead of 20 days annual leave would seem to be correct.


    This is why I love this forum - I think there's an extra £4-500 due to my wife based on calculation including public holidays, which given that she has not been paid for these to date, would make sense.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 3rd Oct 17, 2:39 PM
    • 377 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Energize
    Just read the op again, and no they cannot say the breaks are paid during normal days and unpaid for annual leave.

    So it's a full 4 weeks pay, they owe £1,920 gross so she should have got £1,578.91 after tax.
    Last edited by Energize; 03-10-2017 at 3:01 PM.
    • Pricivius
    • By Pricivius 4th Oct 17, 1:34 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 980 Thanks
    Pricivius
    Sorry, but a quick point that I may have missed. When did resignation take place? It looks as though we are assuming it was the end of maternity leave, but was that correct? Did she resign with immediate effect or give notice? Did she time it exactly right to end on the last day of maternity leave? She is only entitled to accrued but unused holiday up to her last day of employment.


    Could this explain the discrepancy?


    Ignore me if not relevant!
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 4th Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    The end of maternity coincided with her notice period (coincidentally!!).


    She's been in to discuss and initially we thought they were right, and that the discrepancy (considering my original numbers) was down to tax and NI (presuming tax will be refunded in the course of things as she won't hit the minimum threshold this tax year - expected annual earnings of around £8k).


    However, based on the fact that public holidays should be factored in, there's actually an extra 5.5 days holiday that she should be due (around £500). I've emailed the Director and they've referred it on to their "HR Department" (external third party company) - as I mentioned, it's a very small business, so they're not always au fete with rules and regulations pertaining to employee rights and benefits etc.


    I have checked her pay over the course of her maternity and although there is some deviation (based on the number of weeks in the month), it is very small and does not suggest she has been paid for public holidays while on maternity (e.g.: in May's pay for example, the amount paid does not include an extra two days pay).


    Thanks again all - invaluable advice.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 4th Oct 17, 6:25 PM
    • 37,864 Posts
    • 34,252 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I have checked her pay over the course of her maternity and although there is some deviation (based on the number of weeks in the month), it is very small and does not suggest she has been paid for public holidays while on maternity (e.g.: in May's pay for example, the amount paid does not include an extra two days pay).
    Originally posted by fiisch
    That would be normal: the only extra pay you'd expect during maternity pay would be KIT days. And it does vary from month to month because it is calculated on a weekly basis.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 2 shawls, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 1 seaman's hat ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, another seaman's hat
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 4th Oct 17, 11:05 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    That would be normal: the only extra pay you'd expect during maternity pay would be KIT days. And it does vary from month to month because it is calculated on a weekly basis.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Sadly, due to other problems with the employer, she passed on the opportunity to do the KIT days.

    Regrettably, she worked in a very small, close-knit office which was mostly made up of extended family. There were some questionable working practices (e.g.: working 18 hour stretches on call where she'd be woken up continuously before having to work a 12 hour day in the office) which when she queried, meant the staff made life very hard for her.

    She decided, rather than get into an endless fight that would likely lead nowhere, not to mention stress out the baby, that she'd take early maternity leave, and then find a part-time job once maternity had ended.

    The cynic in me suspects the pay has been deliberately withheld - initially it wasn't paid at all. It is only when challenged they relented and paid some money, which it now appears is still incorrect. She is very keen to get it sorted, move on, and quickly forget about the company!!!
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 4th Oct 17, 11:44 PM
    • 17,118 Posts
    • 37,750 Thanks
    Masomnia
    Any annual leave that was outstanding when she went on mat leave in December should roll over too.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 10th Oct 17, 1:07 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    Thanks all - employer has emailed to confirm 21 days holiday payment due (not 14 as previously paid).


    She's now had 3 separate payments, each with it's own payslip (and revised P45). I'm awaiting the documents from this latest payment, but she has now paid tax and NI.


    Her annual earnings will be below the £11,000 annual threshold -


    1). Presumably, in theory, she should receive a tax rebate next tax year, without chasing the tax office?;


    2). Is both Tax and National Insurance "rebatable", or is this limited to tax?


    3). Is it worth contacting HMRC sooner to claim a rebate?


    Thanks again.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Oct 17, 1:14 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,066 Thanks
    Comms69
    Thanks all - employer has emailed to confirm 21 days holiday payment due (not 14 as previously paid).


    She's now had 3 separate payments, each with it's own payslip (and revised P45). I'm awaiting the documents from this latest payment, but she has now paid tax and NI.


    Her annual earnings will be below the £11,000 annual threshold -


    1). Presumably, in theory, she should receive a tax rebate next tax year, without chasing the tax office?;


    2). Is both Tax and National Insurance "rebatable", or is this limited to tax?


    3). Is it worth contacting HMRC sooner to claim a rebate?


    Thanks again.
    Originally posted by fiisch


    Assuming they have her correct address.
    Just tax.
    No, as she isn't entitled to one yet.
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 10th Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    fiisch
    As I suspected.


    Thanks all - some excellent advice on here. Very glad I asked, or we'd have been +£450 quid (+ the resultant tax rebate next year) out of pocket!


    Does make me wonder how many people before my wife have been stiffed by the same company.....
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