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  • FIRST POST
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 3rd Oct 17, 12:10 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 13Thanks
    BOBFOC
    NTK for Coop Car Park - Norfolk Parking Enforcement (NPE) ANPR Version
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:10 PM
    NTK for Coop Car Park - Norfolk Parking Enforcement (NPE) ANPR Version 3rd Oct 17 at 12:10 PM
    Hello MSE

    A Notice To Keeper (NTK) has been received, for parking at a Norwich East of England Co-Op) Shop. They delivered it in good time and in letter form.

    Details (redacted) as follows:

    National Parking Enforcement LTD
    The Studio, St. Nicholas Close, Elstree, Herts, WD6 3EW
    Reg: 08031075

    Location: Earlham Green (East of England Co-Op), NR4 7TE
    Duration: times redacted, but 15 minutes duration

    Reason for issue: "Parked in a child and parent bay whilst unaccompanied by a child of 12 years or less, Parked in a disabled bay & failing to display a valid blue badge."

    "The driver of the above vehicle, etc.”

    Some detail (to be included in any appeal, if advised to by MSE) of the circumstances that caused the driver to be parked in the parent and child bay are as follows:

    The driver is an unemployed Granddad, and he wanted to use the cash point machine, and the Co-Op shop, and the post office (all in same place). The driver had no money until he had checked the cash point. When the driver left his car, he had 3 passengers inside (his daughter, and 2 granddaughters under the ages of 12) but as they were all ill with coughs and colds, and crying, he left them alone to visit the cash point first. The driver told his daughter that he would check if he had received benefit payments, and if so, he said he would treat the girls to something in the shop. The driver didn't even think to check if it was OK to park in a child/parent bay with children in the car, as he just assumed it was correct. The drivers child and grandchildren all remained inside the car while he used the cash point, but he had told them all that he would come back to let them know if they could come into the shop too, a few minutes later.

    The driver returned to the car to tell them that he didn't have enough money in his account for treats for the children, and also to collect the parcel that he had to post inside the Co-Op. The driver has a postal receipt for the tracking of his parcel, but not for the transaction for food inside the shop, which was in cash.

    The driver has witnesses who can confirm that the children were all ill that day.

    Following the driver's very brief 15 minute stop at Co-Op, he left the car park none the wiser. He hadn't even remotely considered that he may have breached some private parking notice.

    The driver has provided me with a photo which shows the parking warning notice in place at the Co-Op, and it says a “Parent” using the child/parent space would require that the children would have needed to leave the car with the “Parent”.

    I will post the photo of the sign in case it’s needed. The wording does sound biased against Grandparents, as it makes no mention that, for example, and elderly Grandparent could use the "Parent and Child Bays", despite the fact that you would expect that to be even more important, from the perspective of the Co-Op, and their ethical stance and community values, to support the elderly. The driver was not an OAP, but he wanted to help raise this potential discrimination for future reference of people, in similar situations.

    I will await a reply, and keep reading in the meantime. I have already read a fair amount of the posts on this forum, and I understand that a letter of appeal may be needed. A letter of complaint will also be sent to the Chief Executive of Co-Operative Food; steve.murrells@co-operative.coop

    ** see below post #8 for correct CEO **

    Please advise which template of appeal letter I should be using.

    Thanks for the great work you all do.

    Photo of the parking notice - I couldn't include due to forum restrictions.
    Last edited by BOBFOC; 03-10-2017 at 6:45 PM.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
Page 2
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 3rd Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    • 7,720 Posts
    • 7,995 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Oct 17, 5:31 PM
    • 4,734 Posts
    • 3,074 Thanks
    KeithP
    Start by editing your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who ARE two different people as far as anyone is concerned.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I understand the requirement to write in third person perspective...
    Originally posted by BOBFOC
    I am not sure you do.

    It is very important that you do not give any clues to the identity of the driver in any posts you make on here.

    So, for example, I've selected the first part of one paragraph from your original post and edited appropriately:
    The driver is an unemployed Granddad, and he wanted to use the cashpoint machine, and the Co-Op shop, and the post office (all in same place). The driver had no money until he had checked the cashpoint. When the driver left his car, he had 3 passengers inside (his daughter, and 2 granddaughters under the ages of 12) but as they were all ill with a cough/cold, and crying, he left them alone to visit the cashpoint first.
    Now, please edit your original post in the same way.

    PPCs trawl forums looking for people to trip themselves up, and if you are not careful you will hand them the wrong information.
    .
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 3rd Oct 17, 5:46 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    I am not sure you do.

    It is very important that you do not give any clues to the identity of the driver in any posts you make on here.

    So, for example, I've selected the first part of one paragraph from your original post and edited appropriately:


    Now, please edit your original post in the same way.

    PPCs trawl forums looking for people to trip themselves up, and if you are not careful you will hand them the wrong information.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't aware that they could take information gained from here to use, I wrongly assumed that they would just use what I provide to them directly. I will edit the original post shortly.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • 51,711 Posts
    • 65,364 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's Earlham House - a well known cash cow site - the appeal won't work, nor will the complaint because this isn't down to the Co-op, it's not their fault and I am sure they HATE it.

    It's down to the company which owns the land and lets this protection racket operate.

    From recent articles linked below:

    The latest controversy over paid parking followed Bellgold Properties’ sale of the Earlham House’s free hold in April this year. Despite selling the building to Castelnau Acquisitions, it retained ownership of the car park and is responsible for the proposed charges.

    Search this forum for the words 'Earlham NPE' and I reckon you will reassured that NPE (the old company of those initials were ex-clampers) are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Nothing to worry about.

    As well as searching this forum (NOT MSE itself!) for 'Earlham NPE', also read these articles:

    https://www.europebreakingnews.net/2017/03/hope-that-new-owners-of-earlham-house-shopping-centre-will-help-to-relax-parking-enforcement-news/

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/edp-property/crowdfunding-campaign-launched-to-protect-livelihoods-of-earlham-house-shopping-centre-traders-1-5139075

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/it-s-scandalous-shop-owner-warns-new-parking-rules-biggest-threat-to-traders-at-earlham-house-shopping-centre-1-4976914

    https://www.change.org/p/bellgold-properties-ltd-safeguard-earlham-house-shops-say-no-to-npe-s-heavy-handed-parking-enforcement

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/motoring/petition-demands-removal-of-cctv-cameras-in-earlham-house-shopping-centre-1-4593021

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2017/04/15/earlham-house-shops-threatened-by-parking-charges/

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2016/06/04/stop-heavy-handed-parking-enforcement-at-earlham-house-shops/

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1210120625734206&id=13682 2703064009

    http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/motorists-stung-for-using-wrong-entrance-to-norwich-car-park-but-complaints-spark-u-turn-1-3911665

    No idea why any local wouldn't know about this awful, notorious, scummy place and boycott it, even if it's their nearest stores/Post Office, this is NOT somewhere to shop.

    Get the Grandad to do something more useful than appealing - complain to the local Councillors and MP, rattle some cages and add his name to petitions, make some noise about this scam!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 3rd Oct 17, 9:26 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    It's Earlham House - a well known cash cow site - the appeal won't work, nor will the complaint because this isn't down to the Co-op, it's not their fault and I am sure they HATE it.

    It's down to the company which owns the land and lets this protection racket operate.

    From recent articles linked below:

    The latest controversy over paid parking followed Bellgold Properties’ sale of the Earlham House’s free hold in April this year. Despite selling the building to Castelnau Acquisitions, it retained ownership of the car park and is responsible for the proposed charges.

    Search this forum for the words 'Earlham NPE' and I reckon you will reassured that NPE (the old company of those initials were ex-clampers) are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Nothing to worry about.

    As well as searching this forum (NOT MSE itself!) for 'Earlham NPE', also read these articles:


    No idea why any local wouldn't know about this awful, notorious, scummy place and boycott it, even if it's their nearest stores/Post Office, this is NOT somewhere to shop.

    Get the Grandad to do something more useful than appealing - complain to the local Councillors and MP, rattle some cages and add his name to petitions, make some noise about this scam!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    It's not Earlham House, but I can see the confusion. This is at a different location up towards the University. I don't know who the landowner is yet.

    Thanks for the info though.

    https://goo.gl/maps/VUgEASz9GMo

    And the person I spoke to via anon call earlier to the East Of England Co-Op helpdesk, thought that the land was owned by East of England Co-Op but he couldn't be certain, and couldn't put me through to his manager as he wasn't in.
    Last edited by BOBFOC; 03-10-2017 at 9:34 PM. Reason: Edit to add link to map
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 3rd Oct 17, 9:55 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    Also, for clarification. I was told that the Co-Operative Food (Earlham House), is a different Co-Op to the East Of England Co-Op (Earlham Green Lane). The anon call I made to the latter today confirmed that the CEO is totally different.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73209965&postcount=8
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    • 4,734 Posts
    • 3,074 Thanks
    KeithP
    http://i63.tinypic.com/xkoz9z.jpg

    That sign is terrible.

    For a start, the £100 wording isn't big enough.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 10:36 PM
    • 51,711 Posts
    • 65,364 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The sort of scam is the same as at Earlham House though! No different really, except the landowner responsible for allowing the protection racket operating at each site may well be different.

    I really wouldn't waste too much time on it except for rattling cages with complaints.

    I do agree with NPE on one thing (astonishingly): when a car has a disabled person or child passenger who has no intention of getting out, the driver should use a normal bay. Of course.

    Not saying it happened in your case because you've described something a bit different, but I abhor the usual lazy git behaviour you see so often, of old 'look at me, I'm entitled to park and take up space in a disabled bay' husbands sitting in a car with their Blue Badge on show, whilst their non-disabled wife shops in a Supermarket. Lazy and selfish, taking up disabled bays for no reason.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-10-2017 at 10:44 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 4th Oct 17, 7:31 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    better photos of both the yellow and blue signage , very hard to read at the moment ,

    the yellow sign looks to be in addition to the std one (below) , however there does not seem to be a company name and it is a different colour/font to the one below , it also seems to lack a company name / contact info , (against IPC rules) and could be classed as graffiti to the man on the street
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Some new huge detailed pics. Right-click and open in new window/tab does work to expand the image.

    This yellow sign does look like it may have been modified by someone - I'm all confused as to whether it is genuine, as it could have been done by anyone.

    Last edited by BOBFOC; 04-10-2017 at 7:48 PM.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 4th Oct 17, 7:40 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 4th Oct 17, 7:46 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 4th Oct 17, 7:53 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 4th Oct 17, 8:00 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    Also, following a further discussion with the daughter of the driver, she mentioned that the car park was virtually empty at the time of the original parking, and for the duration of the entire 15 minutes.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Oct 17, 8:48 PM
    • 33,495 Posts
    • 17,366 Thanks
    Quentin
    The important thing you may have missed in your haste to sort this out:


    Appeals to IPC companies are futile. (So the empty car park is irrelevant)


    Unless you get a cancellation via the landowner/retailer then be prepared to wait out the 6 years they have to start legal proceedings. (Especially ignore debt collectors and don't contact them or the parking company)


    If you do get a LBCCA or Court correspondence come back at that time for advice on how to proceed
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 5th Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    I have been looking for a template letter of complaint to retailer on the forum, but I am struggling to find anything relevant to my situation. I understand the legal 3rd party approach to the parking enforcement company, but I would like some help on how I should formulate a detailed complaint to the retailer (East Of England Co-Op CEO), and whether this also needs to be in 3rd person?

    I have seen old (from 2013), and pretty brief examples of complaint letters to Aldi, but as my situation may be different, due to coming under IPC and not BPA, I just need some advice before I write it.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by BOBFOC; 05-10-2017 at 9:24 PM.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 6th Oct 17, 10:59 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    Can anyone help ^ ? I will need to get an email sent off to the CEO of Co-Op today, or tomorrow really, as I don't want to miss the opportunity. A few pointers about the type of letter I write would be useful, if it's not possible to find a relevant example.

    Thanks
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Oct 17, 11:18 AM
    • 33,495 Posts
    • 17,366 Thanks
    Quentin

    I have seen old (from 2013), and pretty brief examples of complaint letters to Aldi, but as my situation may be different, due to coming under IPC and not BPA, I just need some advice before I write it.

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by BOBFOC
    When complaining to the retailer the PPCs membership of IPC/BPA is irrelevant.


    You are complaining about being a genuine provable customer subjected to unnecessary hassle etc from their appointed car park manager, not the association they are members of!
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 6th Oct 17, 11:26 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    When complaining to the retailer the PPCs membership of IPC/BPA is irrelevant.


    You are complaining about being a genuine provable customer subjected to unnecessary hassle etc from their appointed car park manager, not the association they are members of!
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Thanks. And should it just be normal 1st person writing, not pseudo legalese, and 3rd person etc.?

    So am I me, or am I still The Driver?
    Last edited by BOBFOC; 06-10-2017 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Another Q
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Oct 17, 11:32 AM
    • 33,495 Posts
    • 17,366 Thanks
    Quentin
    You are writing a letter of complaint from a customer - so no need for legal argument. No need to reveal who was the driver!


    Have you read #13 which suggests points to raise in your letter of complaint? (Don't forget to ask for his intervention to get the ticket cancelled)
    • BOBFOC
    • By BOBFOC 6th Oct 17, 11:33 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    BOBFOC
    You are writing a letter of complaint from a customer - so no need for legal argument. No need to reveal who was the driver!


    Have you read #13 which suggests points to raise in your letter of complaint?
    Originally posted by Quentin
    I will take a look again, just in case. Thanks for the clarification.
    The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.
    ~Frank Zappa
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