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    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 3rd Oct 17, 8:08 AM
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    Prinzessilein
    Query about selling craft-work
    • #1
    • 3rd Oct 17, 8:08 AM
    Query about selling craft-work 3rd Oct 17 at 8:08 AM
    I am on ESA (support) and PiP (Enhanced Care, Standadrd Mobility).

    When my disabilities allow, I do a little craft work - sewing, knitting, sketching...that sort of thing.

    Now, a few days ago an acquaintance came for coffee with Mum, and I was there with my knitting....The acquaintance expressed an interest in my work...I was knitting a hat for myself.

    She then said that she runs a market stall and does car-boot-sales. She asked if I would like to make some more hats and she would sell them....She thought the hats would sell well ...and we would split the money 50/50.

    I thanked her for the nice words about my hat, but pointed out that I cannot guarantee any number of hats...one day I can knit, and then maybe 3 or 4 days my hands don't allow the work...also, I am not sure of the law on someone on disability selling stuff. (Actually most of the talking was done by my carer/Mum...but you get the idea!)

    She smiled and said that a number of people on benefits sell stuff at the market - and many more at the car-boots. She said that it is quite permissible for someone to make a craft item...eg I can knit myself a hat....it is quite permissible for someone to make an item as a gift ...eg I could knit a hat, say, for Mum....so all that people do is make their items, and then gift' them to this woman who then sells them as her own items. She gives the share of the price as 'payment of materials'

    Now, I know that I could never make enough items to sell. ....and I am also compulsively honest! (I would want to declare every item sold)...but it led me to look online and there really doesn't seem to be any official ruling...

    What is the actual law regarding selling items that you have made?
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 3rd Oct 17, 2:12 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:12 PM
    Hi,
    If it's to sell for money then you would need to contact DWP about permitted work. You can earn up to £120 per week and working less then 16 hours. Those in the Support Group can do permitted work for an unlimited amount of time. Permitted work doesn't affect your ESA money but if what you do contradicts the reasons why you claim ESA then this could go against you at your next assessment.
    • Loanranger
    • By Loanranger 3rd Oct 17, 2:26 PM
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    Loanranger
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:26 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:26 PM
    I think the tax office might be interested in the stall holder and her friends!
    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 3rd Oct 17, 2:30 PM
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    Prinzessilein
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    Thanks Poppy.

    I would not think of doing this myself ...as explained, I would never be able to guarantee making enough for sale. ..(I start Christmas cards in August so that I can be sure of getting a few ready for December!)

    But I did wonder whether those people who DO supply this woman were perhaps going to find themselves in trouble.
    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 3rd Oct 17, 2:34 PM
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    Prinzessilein
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:34 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 2:34 PM
    Loanranger...I don't know about the carboots...but the market is one with fixed stalls that you rent...I'm guessing that the stallholder has to file tax returns for this ...(the carboots would be harder to regulate I suppose)

    It did cross my mind that the stall owner was on to a good thing...getting a 50/50share.... whereas, by the time they looked at the cost of materials then the crafter probably only makes a pound or two.
    • Loanranger
    • By Loanranger 3rd Oct 17, 3:54 PM
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    Loanranger
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    You earn money, any way you do it is irrelevant, and YOU have to fill in a tax return. That's the law.
    You are allowed to earn a certain amount before you are liable for tax, it's called the personal allowance, but you need to be aware of it.
    • Sncjw
    • By Sncjw 3rd Oct 17, 6:11 PM
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    Sncjw
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 6:11 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 6:11 PM
    Also remember to factor in costs for your time.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 3rd Oct 17, 7:32 PM
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    Ames
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:32 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:32 PM
    Unless I'm reading it wrong, earnings of less than £1000 a year don't need to be declared for tax:

    Where the allowances cover all of an individual’s relevant income (before expenses) then they will no longer have to declare or pay tax on this income
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income

    But the profit would have to be declared to the DWP.

    Don't forget that if you're working from patterns then they could have copyright which means you can't sell the finished goods.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 3rd Oct 17, 7:46 PM
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    sheramber
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:46 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:46 PM
    [QUOTE=Ames;73211813]Unless I'm reading it wrong, earnings of less than £1000 a year don't need to be declared for tax:



    [URL]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income[/UR/QUOTE]


    That was a proposal and did not happen..
    • Ames
    • By Ames 3rd Oct 17, 8:00 PM
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    Ames
    [QUOTE=sheramber;73211882]
    Unless I'm reading it wrong, earnings of less than £1000 a year don't need to be declared for tax:



    [URL]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income[/UR/QUOTE]


    That was a proposal and did not happen..
    Originally posted by Ames
    Sorry, I didn't realise it had been scrapped.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 3rd Oct 17, 8:17 PM
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    iammumtoone

    That was a proposal and did not happen..
    Originally posted by sheramber
    I was under the impression it was going to happen and a date had been given for it to start?

    EDIT: found links to say it was in the budget to start April 2017 but can't find a link to say it didn't, or it did for that matter. Will carry on searching.

    Re-EDIT: found it on here https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/protect/2017/04/government-drops-1000-tax-breaks-for-online-sellers-and-room-renters-for-now

    thanks for pointing that out sheramber I suspect a lot of people may be caught out, as it was widely published it would happen but not so much it didn't
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 03-10-2017 at 8:35 PM.
    Sealed pot challenge ~ 10 #017
    Declutter 2017 items in 2017 - 78/2017

    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 3rd Oct 17, 8:31 PM
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    teddysmum

    Don't forget that if you're working from patterns then they could have copyright which means you can't sell the finished goods.
    Originally posted by Ames


    A lot of patterns, particularly in books have a warning about copyright if you make other than as a gift or for your own use. However, if making for a charity, some (not all) will give permission for you to make a small number of items from the patterns. (I got permission to make some knitted dogs for a dog charity to sell and even received a free pattern from its creator.)
    • venison
    • By venison 3rd Oct 17, 9:04 PM
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    venison
    OP my advice is DON'T do it, it could get far more complicated than the small rewards are worth.
    Doomed I say we're all doomed.
    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 3rd Oct 17, 9:09 PM
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    Prinzessilein
    OP my advice is DON'T do it, it could get far more complicated than the small rewards are worth.
    Originally posted by venison
    I am not going to do it!

    It was never my intention...I seriously could not make the quantity to make it worth while.

    If I COULD do it, I would be selling them myself - and doing everything above board, including taxes....If my health every recovered (highly unlikely) then a small business selling craft items would be lovely!
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 4th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
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    teddysmum
    OP if your knitting is just therapeutic, many of the animal charities would be grateful for your work to sell and would probably provide donated wool, too.


    If donated items are sold via forum or such as Facebook, many will reimburse postage charges, too.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 4th Oct 17, 3:21 PM
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    bertiewhite
    Just out of interest - where does "selling stuff you no longer want" end and "making stuff specifically to sell" begin?
    • w06
    • By w06 4th Oct 17, 3:54 PM
    • 317 Posts
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    w06
    The organised way the stall holder seems to be wanting to do it for several people sounds like fraud to my uneducated mind. You could do it legitimately if you wanted to, but steer clear of that lady.

    If you're enjoying your knitting and like dogs you could always knit greyhound jumpers ... I like to make mine out of fleece but that may largely be becuase I drop more stitches than I started with even when knitting a teddy bear scarf!
    • Prinzessilein
    • By Prinzessilein 4th Oct 17, 5:31 PM
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    Prinzessilein
    Teddysmum - Yes, my crafting is very much therapeutic...

    It keeps my hands occupied...and the fingers moving....also, it helps me to feel I am still able to accomplish something - even if I am finding myself not only housebound but chairbound on some days.

    I fill a couple of shoe-boxes for the Operation Christmas Child appeal...and will usually put a hand-knitted hat in each.

    The idea of giving knitted items to a charity is something I hadn't thought of...and with that it wouldn't matter that I can't work to any deadlines!

    w06....this is why I asked the question...the law seems a little sketchy, and I was wondering how legit her scheme is.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 4th Oct 17, 8:44 PM
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    teddysmum
    Don't forget to ask if they have any wool though, as it can work out expensive . Charities are given wool, ask for it on forums or local radio or respond to requests for takers.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 5th Oct 17, 4:59 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    I had a bin bag full of wool donated to my Brownies from Freecycle.

    Another charity option is to knit very small clothing for premature babies. Your local hospital with a maternity unit should be able to advise. Or maybe consider twiddlemuffs for dementia patients in local care homes, or contact your lcoal carer's centre if you want to donate to people being cared for at home.

    I wish that you lived near me - I've never mastered knitting or crochet.
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