Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 2nd Oct 17, 9:51 PM
    • 183Posts
    • 125Thanks
    leighavfc
    Broken contract?
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 9:51 PM
    Broken contract? 2nd Oct 17 at 9:51 PM
    Hi all

    I have a really rubbish one for me personally to ask your advice about.

    Basically to cut a long story short, one of my best friends has worked for my family's company for the past 12 years. We were good friends long before working together, never had any issues with each other etc.

    Around about a month ago he went to my dad to tell him that he wanted to leave to help his dad start up his own company. Whilst shocked and gutted my dad understood why he wanted to leave and respected his decision. In turn my dad asked if he could work a 11 week notice period to enable us to replace him, as he was a very important member of the company. We are only a small company with 6 people max in at any one time, so you can imagine we are like a little family. He agreed and the following day brought his notice in to suit what was agreed the day before, i.e leave after 11 week notice period.

    On Sunday morning my dad received a text message from said person telling him he was signing himself off sick with stress because of everything going on... Now this absolutely amazed me as he has been his normal jokey self, ive known the lad most of my life, i know when something is up. Over the weekend he has been out doing various things with his missus, and was even drinking yesterday evening out somewhere. I also saw him at the tip not long after my dad phoned me to tell me what was going on, i was too angry too acknowledge him and pretended i didn't see him as we drove past. Imo there is nothing wrong and he just wants to get started with his dad quicker than he agreed to.

    My dad asked him to attend a meeting on Monday (today) to finalize stuff and get it all sorted, for him to hand keys to the factory over etc. He replied saying the doctor had told him to rest and he was not up to it, adamant that he wasn't up for coming in for a meeting. My dad then said to him well i think you ought to get this sorted and i will see you at 12pm tomorrow. He didnt show up at all, no contact nothing.

    I believe he has broken the terms of his contract, and although i just want to put a line under this and see the back of him and this, part of me thinks we should pursue to prove a point?

    The sad thing in all this is he hasn't said a word too me about it, and we are like brothers (so i thought).

    Thanks for reading if you got this far
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
Page 1
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 2nd Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    • 2,853 Posts
    • 6,420 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:31 PM
    If he's followed the Company's sickness procedure then imo he hasn't broken the terms of his contract.

    You're probably right - despite initially agreeing to the 11 week notice period, somewhere - and for some reason - he's decided that he doesn't want to.

    Personally I'd just follow company procedure - so if it means he goes onto sick pay rates then so be it.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 2nd Oct 17, 10:36 PM
    • 17,038 Posts
    • 37,579 Thanks
    Masomnia
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:36 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:36 PM
    Certainly sick pay.

    Invite him to another meeting, and ask him to provide a Drs note to say that he isn't fit to attend if he says he cannot.
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 2nd Oct 17, 10:53 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    leighavfc
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:53 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:53 PM
    If he's followed the Company's sickness procedure then imo he hasn't broken the terms of his contract.

    You're probably right - despite initially agreeing to the 11 week notice period, somewhere - and for some reason - he's decided that he doesn't want to.

    Personally I'd just follow company procedure - so if it means he goes onto sick pay rates then so be it.
    Originally posted by gettingtheresometime
    Thanks for this, i need to get his contract out tomorrow to see exactly what is worded. Yeah i can kind of understand if he wants to get things rolling with his dad but imo you shouldn't agree to something your not going to see through. I think i feel more aggrieved as he is actually my mate, the way he is being blunt about it isn't helping things which is just winding me up even more. After the many many things weve done and helped him with over the years, this is a massive kick in the b******s to be honest.



    Certainly sick pay.

    Invite him to another meeting, and ask him to provide a Drs note to say that he isn't fit to attend if he says he cannot.
    Originally posted by Masomnia
    Yeah im sure my dad will get in touch with him to request this, what happens if he doesn't turn up? Yeah he will be on sick pay but without any proof where do we stand then? i also have the social media posts of him out and about, although im sure stress is a very hard one to judge.
    Sorry for all the what ifs, my head is all over the place this evening!
    Last edited by leighavfc; 02-10-2017 at 10:55 PM.
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 3rd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 2,600 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    • #5
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:18 AM
    Does his employment contract state that he must give 11 weeks notice?

    If he doesn't send in fit notes, presumably he can be dismissed for being AWOL.
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 10:27 AM
    • 448 Posts
    • 308 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:27 AM
    • #6
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:27 AM
    Hi all

    I have a really rubbish one for me personally to ask your advice about.

    Basically to cut a long story short, one of my best friends has worked for my family's company for the past 12 years. We were good friends long before working together, never had any issues with each other etc.

    Around about a month ago he went to my dad to tell him that he wanted to leave to help his dad start up his own company. Whilst shocked and gutted my dad understood why he wanted to leave and respected his decision. In turn my dad asked if he could work a 11 week notice period to enable us to replace him, as he was a very important member of the company. We are only a small company with 6 people max in at any one time, so you can imagine we are like a little family. He agreed and the following day brought his notice in to suit what was agreed the day before, i.e leave after 11 week notice period.

    On Sunday morning my dad received a text message from said person telling him he was signing himself off sick with stress because of everything going on... Now this absolutely amazed me as he has been his normal jokey self, ive known the lad most of my life, i know when something is up. Over the weekend he has been out doing various things with his missus, and was even drinking yesterday evening out somewhere. I also saw him at the tip not long after my dad phoned me to tell me what was going on, i was too angry too acknowledge him and pretended i didn't see him as we drove past. Imo there is nothing wrong and he just wants to get started with his dad quicker than he agreed to.

    My dad asked him to attend a meeting on Monday (today) to finalize stuff and get it all sorted, for him to hand keys to the factory over etc. He replied saying the doctor had told him to rest and he was not up to it, adamant that he wasn't up for coming in for a meeting. My dad then said to him well i think you ought to get this sorted and i will see you at 12pm tomorrow. He didnt show up at all, no contact nothing.

    I believe he has broken the terms of his contract, and although i just want to put a line under this and see the back of him and this, part of me thinks we should pursue to prove a point?

    The sad thing in all this is he hasn't said a word too me about it, and we are like brothers (so i thought).

    Thanks for reading if you got this far
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    Learn to separate personal and professional relationships.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 3rd Oct 17, 12:18 PM
    • 5,539 Posts
    • 27,423 Thanks
    bugslet
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:18 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:18 PM
    No sick note, no sick pay.

    To save him some stress, you could call round and collect it from him, you know, just to be helpful

    If he has no sick pay then I'd say just forget about him from a work perspective - though I think he may have damaged your friendship

    I fully understand how you feel, the personal relationship makes it worse. Employing people you know is always going to be riven with difficulties.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 3rd Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    • 445 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:29 PM
    Depends what your sickness procedure is. At my company you are required to phone in every morning at a certain time unless a Drs note is handed in. After a week they expect a note anyway. I work for a decent company but you can be dismissed for absence if you have not followed company procedure. Of course the company has rules they must follow before you can be dismissed.
    • bap98189
    • By bap98189 3rd Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    • 2,493 Posts
    • 4,087 Thanks
    bap98189
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:50 PM
    Thanks for this, i need to get his contract out tomorrow to see exactly what is worded. Yeah i can kind of understand if he wants to get things rolling with his dad but imo you shouldn't agree to something your not going to see through. I think i feel more aggrieved as he is actually my mate, the way he is being blunt about it isn't helping things which is just winding me up even more. After the many many things weve done and helped him with over the years, this is a massive kick in the b******s to be honest.
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    What does his contract say about notice period? Because that is going to be all he is required to give, not something agreed verbally.

    You really need to treat this situation professionally. You seem to think that he owes you or your Dad something, but he doesn't. he is/was an employee, and owes you nothing more than whatever notice period is in his contract. Employees come and go from businesses all the time. It's not personal, it's the way the world works.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 3rd Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    • 29,994 Posts
    • 17,925 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Check what his notice is in the contract
    (not the company to him as that is at least 12 weeks).

    it may be that you ill need to pay one week of the nottice at full pay even if you drop them to SSP.
    (they may not know about it but be prepared if they raise the issue.


    Focus the efforts on filling the gap if they were such an important part of the business if you are letting that slip they were not that important.
    • NineDeuce
    • By NineDeuce 3rd Oct 17, 1:07 PM
    • 278 Posts
    • 217 Thanks
    NineDeuce
    That definitely wasnt a long story cut short (so I didnt read it, sorry)....
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Oct 17, 1:11 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    leighavfc
    That definitely wasnt a long story cut short (so I didnt read it, sorry)....
    Originally posted by NineDeuce
    But you still commented. Thanks.....
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
    • NineDeuce
    • By NineDeuce 3rd Oct 17, 1:26 PM
    • 278 Posts
    • 217 Thanks
    NineDeuce
    But you still commented. Thanks.....
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    That's generally what goes on in forums...
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Oct 17, 1:27 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    leighavfc
    What does his contract say about notice period? Because that is going to be all he is required to give, not something agreed verbally.

    You really need to treat this situation professionally. You seem to think that he owes you or your Dad something, but he doesn't. he is/was an employee, and owes you nothing more than whatever notice period is in his contract. Employees come and go from businesses all the time. It's not personal, it's the way the world works.
    Originally posted by bap98189
    Hi

    No definetly not, he owes me nothing, ive always said that to him and anybody else. The stuff we have had to put up from him in the past, is what i was referring to. At its worst he was having a rough time so we excused it... hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

    Its not personal but the way he is trying to play a game with us makes it personal to me my mom and dad. Instead of being reasonable honest and decent as we have always been with him.
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
    • Energize
    • By Energize 3rd Oct 17, 1:28 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 103 Thanks
    Energize
    That definitely wasnt a long story cut short (so I didnt read it, sorry)....
    Originally posted by NineDeuce
    If you aren't able to read a handful of short paragraphs you wouldn't have been capable of helping the op anyway.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 1:30 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 308 Thanks
    Comms69
    Hi

    No definetly not, he owes me nothing, ive always said that to him and anybody else. The stuff we have had to put up from him in the past, is what i was referring to. At its worst he was having a rough time so we excused it... hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

    Its not personal but the way he is trying to play a game with us makes it personal to me my mom and dad. Instead of being reasonable honest and decent as we have always been with him.
    Originally posted by leighavfc


    Well that's your fault then. Are you running a business or a nursery?


    Create policies, use them effectively and don't deviate from them.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 3rd Oct 17, 1:38 PM
    • 372 Posts
    • 541 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    He can self certify for the first seven days of sickness. After that a fit note is required for SSP purposes.

    Now this absolutely amazed me as he has been his normal jokey self, ive known the lad most of my life, i know when something is up.
    I doubt very much that you do. From my own experience and that of loved ones, you don't know what is going on behind someone's smiling exterior. It can be those that appear strongest that are really suffering inside.

    I don't know if he's swinging the lead or not, but please don't assume to know what is going on in someone else's head, however well you know them.
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    leighavfc
    Well that's your fault then. Are you running a business or a nursery?


    Create policies, use them effectively and don't deviate from them.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I dont understand any of this but thanks anyway... we have stuck to policies... hes deviating from hence the thread on here?
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 3rd Oct 17, 1:45 PM
    • 448 Posts
    • 308 Thanks
    Comms69
    I dont understand any of this but thanks anyway... we have stuck to policies... hes deviating from hence the thread on here?
    Originally posted by leighavfc
    "The stuff we have had to put up from him in the past, is what i was referring to. At its worst he was having a rough time so we excused it... "


    So your policy is to excuse inappropriate behaviour? Or what?


    How has he deviated from the policy, so far as I can see, he's called in sick. Is that a breach of policy?
    • leighavfc
    • By leighavfc 3rd Oct 17, 1:55 PM
    • 183 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    leighavfc
    "The stuff we have had to put up from him in the past, is what i was referring to. At its worst he was having a rough time so we excused it... "


    So your policy is to excuse inappropriate behaviour? Or what?


    How has he deviated from the policy, so far as I can see, he's called in sick. Is that a breach of policy?
    Originally posted by Comms69

    No obviously not........ we were being whats called helpful to a friend at the time. I understand your comment now about policys, and yes maybe we should have got rid but it stopped soon after and didnt really have many issues after that. Point taken there.

    Im not sure hence why im asking, solicitor seems to think we have a case, tbh i dont have the contracts in front of me to tell you all the details, so maybe im asking an unanswerable question without the relevant info. Sorry my head is all over the gaff at the minute.
    DEBT FREE AS OF 28/6/17
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,550Posts Today

7,567Users online

Martin's Twitter