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  • FIRST POST
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 2nd Oct 17, 6:07 PM
    • 1,916Posts
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    Stoke
    Why would anyone cycle to work?
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 6:07 PM
    Why would anyone cycle to work? 2nd Oct 17 at 6:07 PM
    This morning, on the way into work, I saw a cyclist nearly get knocked off by two different cars in the space of 20 seconds.

    Then, half an hour later, I saw another cyclist nearly get knocked off, again we're talking inches.

    It's an absolute bloody minefield out there with all the crap drivers. It's a shame as cyclists do other road users and the world a favour in reality, but they aren't half treated with contempt.

    I've always considered cycling to work, but nah, it's too risky tbh.
    Last edited by Stoke; 02-10-2017 at 6:12 PM.
Page 6
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 11:54 AM
    • 445 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    Those strangers who smoke and drink pay colossal amounts of tax voluntarily, then shuffle off this mortal coil before getting to draw their pension. They're paying for yours. Respect.

    Raise your glass (of water) and salute them.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    You are barking up the wrong tree.

    I prefer Prosecco. I never said they did not, it's just not something I worry about and still dont. If people think they are safer not wearing one then its fine. Now what??

    Ohh and I pay for other people's pension including a private one. Lets salute that.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-10-2017 at 12:00 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th Oct 17, 12:16 PM
    • 21,166 Posts
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    lisyloo
    I must admit I don't wear a helmet when cycling but I mainly cycle on the cycle superhighway where there are NO motor vehicles.
    It's possible I could fall off my bike and hit my head but I think it's extremely unlikely. As an adult I've fallen off my bike once in 30 years and I landed on my as* not on my head, so I consider it extremely unlikely.
    I have however put a great deal of effort into advanced riding qualifications to anticipate and avoid accidents as that makes a great deal of sense to me.


    Anyone else think it's better to avoid them rather than merely try to reduce the consequences? It's not one or the other, but I would have thought avoidance was better than reduction which may or may not be effective in any individual scenario.
    • andrewf75
    • By andrewf75 10th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
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    andrewf75
    Anyone else think it's better to avoid them rather than merely try to reduce the consequences? It's not one or the other, but I would have thought avoidance was better than reduction which may or may not be effective in any individual scenario.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Definitely. While I have expressed my view that I'd never cycle without a helmet, I would definitely agree that avoidance and anticipation are far more important.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 12:49 PM
    • 445 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    Definitely. While I have expressed my view that I'd never cycle without a helmet, I would definitely agree that avoidance and anticipation are far more important.
    Originally posted by andrewf75

    I agree. I also cycle 14 of my 20 a day on the Thames footpath.

    However I can not always prevent dogs, foxes,cats running in front of me.
    Children suddenly changing direction, on or off a bike or scooter.
    People on bikes who ride the wrong way or with no lights at 5.00 am on a winters morning.
    The rain, snow, leafs or ice........I sometimes miss judge things or don't see.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-10-2017 at 1:04 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th Oct 17, 1:41 PM
    • 21,166 Posts
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    lisyloo
    I agree. I also cycle 14 of my 20 a day on the Thames footpath.

    However I can not always prevent dogs, foxes,cats running in front of me.
    Children suddenly changing direction, on or off a bike or scooter.
    People on bikes who ride the wrong way or with no lights at 5.00 am on a winters morning.
    The rain, snow, leafs or ice........I sometimes miss judge things or don't see.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Out of interest how many times have those scenarios caused you to hit your head?

    Not pre-judging, just wanting to get educated.
    • flybynight
    • By flybynight 10th Oct 17, 1:57 PM
    • 252 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    flybynight
    20 miles a shift for the last four years. 14 miles of that on the Thames footpath. Not a car insight. Plenty of foxes and the odd seal along the Thames.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    a buddy of mine ended up off work for 3 days after having a run in with a cross goose on a towpath on his bike, he anticipated the direction of its movement, unfortunately the goose exercised its prerogative to change its mind. poor lad got laughed at quite a bit.
    saving for more holidays
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Oct 17, 2:21 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    You are barking up the wrong tree.

    I prefer Prosecco. I never said they did not, it's just not something I worry about and still dont. If people think they are safer not wearing one then its fine. Now what??

    Ohh and I pay for other people's pension including a private one. Lets salute that.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Presumably though you remain thin enough, fit enough and smoke free enough to be able to expect to live long enough to lift your pension. They won't, despite voluntarily paying all that tobacco duty that you don't.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Oct 17, 2:23 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    a buddy of mine ended up off work for 3 days after having a run in with a cross goose on a towpath on his bike, he anticipated the direction of its movement, unfortunately the goose exercised its prerogative to change its mind. poor lad got laughed at quite a bit.
    Originally posted by flybynight
    A young man in Belfast ran into a small dog a few years back and suffered a fatal liver tear when the handlebar got him in the belly. Must have been a unique form of road death.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th Oct 17, 2:39 PM
    • 21,166 Posts
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    lisyloo
    They won't, despite voluntarily paying all that tobacco duty that you don't.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Unfortunately this isn't true, certainly not on an individual basis.
    We have found ways to keep people alive with diabetes (from being overweight) and COPD (from smoking) and even prolong their lives if they get lung cancer. However they will need expensive medications, treatments and care and may have to retire early due to ill-health making them more likely to rely on benefits.

    It's certainly not true on a individual basis that if you do X then Y will happen even if it's statistically more likely and we are keeping people alive with various conditions - smoking, obeisity, HIV, cancer are no longer a death sentence.

    Oh and lots of people bring cigarettes in from abroad - legally or illegally and don't pay the UK tax on them.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 3:31 PM
    • 445 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    Out of interest how many times have those scenarios caused you to hit your head?

    Not pre-judging, just wanting to get educated.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    None yet............however I have worked in the oil game as an operator for 20 years and other than a handful of times not needed the service of a hard hat. Let me know what all that proves.

    Ohhh and never needed the service of my house alarm or a smoke detector. Do you think I have been wasting my money? lol

    Have I got to hit my head every month then to make it worth my while??.........how about every three month or once a year??
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-10-2017 at 3:37 PM.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Oct 17, 3:39 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Unfortunately this isn't true, certainly not on an individual basis.
    We have found ways to keep people alive with diabetes (from being overweight) and COPD (from smoking) and even prolong their lives if they get lung cancer. However they will need expensive medications, treatments and care and may have to retire early due to ill-health making them more likely to rely on benefits.

    It's certainly not true on a individual basis that if you do X then Y will happen even if it's statistically more likely and we are keeping people alive with various conditions - smoking, obeisity, HIV, cancer are no longer a death sentence.

    Oh and lots of people bring cigarettes in from abroad - legally or illegally and don't pay the UK tax on them.
    Originally posted by lisyloo

    Look it up. The Slovak government was advised a few years ago that an effective way to balance the books was to stop discouraging smoking. Didn't go down well with the health campaigners.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th Oct 17, 4:09 PM
    • 21,166 Posts
    • 10,147 Thanks
    lisyloo
    None yet............however I have worked in the oil game as an operator for 20 years and other than a handful of times not needed the service of a hard hat. Let me know what all that proves.

    Ohhh and never needed the service of my house alarm or a smoke detector. Do you think I have been wasting my money? lol

    Have I got to hit my head every month then to make it worth my while??.........how about every three month or once a year??
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    It's a good point (which wasn't necessary to repeat :-)

    The point I was making was about likelihood (which may vary depending on where you cycle).
    The other thing one needs to consider is consequences.
    So for example if you were a young healthy parent then death might be unlikely in the short term but the financial consequences could be devastating so it would be sensible to have life insurance.

    I don't think the risk of a cycling accident and certainly one that would be helped by a polystyrene helmet is very high at all.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 4:17 PM
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    scd3scd4
    It's a good point (which wasn't necessary to repeat :-)

    The point I was making was about likelihood (which may vary depending on where you cycle).
    The other thing one needs to consider is consequences.
    So for example if you were a young healthy parent then death might be unlikely in the short term but the financial consequences could be devastating so it would be sensible to have life insurance.

    I don't think the risk of a cycling accident and certainly one that would be helped by a polystyrene helmet is very high at all.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Thats fantastic............dont then.

    I will. And for some reason my head has started to hurt!! ;-]
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-10-2017 at 4:23 PM.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 10th Oct 17, 4:35 PM
    • 1,599 Posts
    • 2,106 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    The same idiots will talk about why they don't wear helmets and at the same time have no lights, dressed all in black.
    It doesn't really matter who posted this, but it's typical of the conflation of bad cyclist with no helmet, and the general contribution to the 'blame the cyclist because they weren't wearing a helmet' zeitgeist.

    Where they've actually legislated for bike helmet use they've seen significant falls in bike use and an even more anti-cyclist attitude. The public health and traffic congestion penalties you can imagine for yourself. When you see photos of Amsterdam or Copenhagen etc, etc, you rarely see a helmet and I'm pretty sure their casualty figures have not been negatively impacted.

    I sometimes do and sometimes don't. So please, those who always do so, can they do it quietly and not go on about it. I have a ski helmet but have hardly used it, as I don't hit the park and rarely do serious off-piste these days. I'm sure it affects my proprioception too, and I can never understand those who ski with their hoods up as that does also for me.

    My attitude to risk has probably changed - I was once on a Contessa 32 that broached off St. Cats and none of us were wearing life jackets or harnesses - and that I wouldn't do again! But cycle helmets for a trip down the shops - meh.
    • andrewf75
    • By andrewf75 10th Oct 17, 4:53 PM
    • 7,558 Posts
    • 12,581 Thanks
    andrewf75
    While I have argued for cycle helmets being sensible from a personal point of view, I agree they shouldn't be mandatory. The absolute last thing we need in the UK is cycling to be even less accessible to anyone who chooses to get on a bike.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 10th Oct 17, 5:22 PM
    • 445 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    It doesn't really matter who posted this, but it's typical of the conflation of bad cyclist with no helmet, and the general contribution to the 'blame the cyclist because they weren't wearing a helmet' zeitgeist.

    Where they've actually legislated for bike helmet use they've seen significant falls in bike use and an even more anti-cyclist attitude. The public health and traffic congestion penalties you can imagine for yourself. When you see photos of Amsterdam or Copenhagen etc, etc, you rarely see a helmet and I'm pretty sure their casualty figures have not been negatively impacted.

    I sometimes do and sometimes don't. So please, those who always do so, can they do it quietly and not go on about it. I have a ski helmet but have hardly used it, as I don't hit the park and rarely do serious off-piste these days. I'm sure it affects my proprioception too, and I can never understand those who ski with their hoods up as that does also for me.

    My attitude to risk has probably changed - I was once on a Contessa 32 that broached off St. Cats and none of us were wearing life jackets or harnesses - and that I wouldn't do again! But cycle helmets for a trip down the shops - meh.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    I posted it and it still stands. Based on thousands of miles over many years on my personal experience and observation..

    Not really sure what point you think you are making. I wear one but I dont care if others do or don't. Bit silly to say quietly and not go on about it. on a forum debate.

    However I care if people have lights because I want to see them and not collide at 15 mph each on a dark footpath at 5 am on a winters morning. If we both did not have lights and I took the same dopey attitude I would be getting hurt regularly.

    I never worn one when I skied in the Army but I did when I jumped out of a few planes. Whats that got to do with anything. You are trying to lessen the debate by talking about Amsterdam or Copenhagen and shops. Try again in the West End/City of London to people who are cycling plenty of miles daily.

    Let me repeat............I don't care if strangers wear them, skiing, walking, riding or in bed sorting the wife out!
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 10-10-2017 at 6:29 PM.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 11th Oct 17, 11:59 AM
    • 4,173 Posts
    • 5,306 Thanks
    jack_pott
    misleading to even take seriously a 1970s study on motorbikes in the US and apply it to cycling in the UK and then give it equal weight to common sense! From a quick google it seems that a more recent and more relevant study has disproved it anyway
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3783373/
    Originally posted by andrewf75
    What’s misleading is to reject the only study that addresses the issue in point and accept the ones that don’t.

    Yes, it’s a 40 year old study, and to my knowledge the only one of its kind. That in itself begs an obvious question: why? If someone published a study finding that you can turn base metal into gold people would be falling over themselves to repeat it, but when a study tells people what they don’t want to hear it gets ignored. That was the case here, and very obviously so because of the dishonest way in which it was published.

    As I said, the group wearing helmets had a higher death rate than the control group without, but in order to disguise that, the control and study groups were aggregated together to make it appear the complete opposite. I don’t have a copy of the original study, but here is the analysis of how the stats were fiddled.

    Here is another analysis of some of the most “prestigious” research commonly used to justify helmets, and again it turns out that the stats have been fiddled in order to claim the opposite result to that produced.
    Last edited by jack_pott; 11-10-2017 at 12:30 PM.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 11th Oct 17, 12:02 PM
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    jack_pott
    What I don't see are road traffic collisions involving the town centre feral cyclists who ride rusty chained, flat tyred, brakeless bikes without helmets, lights etc, on the pavement and through red lights. It's a non-statistic. I think those are the type of cyclists that motorists will give a much wider berth to, primarily because they don't want their car damaged.
    Originally posted by brat
    Obvious really, isn' it. And so easy to demonstrate: just try wobbling around, and see how much more room you get.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 11th Oct 17, 12:10 PM
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    jack_pott
    I also cycle 14 of my 20 a day on the Thames footpath.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    In that case, you should be wearing scuba kit as well as a helmet.
    I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 11th Oct 17, 12:27 PM
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    lisyloo
    Thats fantastic............dont then.

    I will. And for some reason my head has started to hurt!! ;-]
    Originally posted by scd3scd4

    If you are saying it should remain a matter of personal choice then I wholeheartedly agree with you :-)
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