Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 5Thanks
    jonboy269
    Britannia PCN
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    Britannia PCN 2nd Oct 17 at 4:16 PM
    Hello,
    Today Iíve received a PCN from Britannia with Photographs of my car from the 23rd of September showing correct entry and exit times to the car park. The contravention is stated as ďfailed to make valid paymentĒ. We entered the car park at 15.19 and paid for an hour by cash, I donít have the receipt so Iím assuming we paid around 15.22. We returned later and paid for another hour by card. I have checked with the bank and they said the transaction was made at 16.25. So, without the tickets to check the exact times, I may have been a few minutes late in paying for the second hour. We left the car park with lots of to spare so thatís not an issue.
    I have read the newbie post but didnít think that was specific to my situation. Surely they canít penalize me for a few minutes between the 2 payments (if that was the case).
    Any advice from you guys would be much appreciated. I have made no contact with them as of yet.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    maybe they can , maybe not , either way you appeal as KEEPER using the blue text template and then appeal to popla later on, based on legal arguments including KEEPER not liable as they have probably failed POFA2012

    SO FORGET WHAT HAPPENED , use the blue text template for starters , as KEEPER (not driver ) and draft a popla appeal for when you get a popla code

    so post #1 and #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread (which dont care about "what happened") apply

    you have fallen into the trap of thinking that what happened on the day is relevant , when legal arguments are currently relevant , so the NEWBIES thread is completely relevant
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:33 PM
    Ok Redx, thanks for that. I nearly rang them this afternoon but stumbled upon this great forum and thought I’d better ask before jumping in feet first.
    Thanks again.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:40 PM
    NEVER , NEVER phone them , or anyone else for that matter

    they wont care what you have to say

    if they failed POFA2012 or signage or any other legal aspect then you as KEEPER will prevail, even if the events on the day by the driver play no part

    stay as keeper, doesnt matter what you win on , just win

    sometimes less is more

    in future , KEEP all receipts for 3 months or more , regardless

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2017/05/30/throwing-pay-display-ticket-away-use-cost-100/
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 4:52 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    • #5
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:52 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:52 PM
    I had a similar situation about 5 years ago with a ď2 hours no return car parkĒ but had paid for 2 tickets. I completely ignored that PCN and the following threats and it just went away. Seems like the rules have changed now which is why I asked for advice. I will be keeping those receipts from now on ( thanks for the link). Might drive the missus nuts. She likes to keep the car tidy
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:57 PM
    its not "gone away" yet , because the statute for a small claim is 6 years and its been the same "rule" since 1973 !!

    and yes they do chase up old debts so its only gone away 6 years and 1 day after the event

    POFA2012 came in 5 years ago , so that certainly changed the rules, as did the CRA2015 and also the BEAVIS case 2 years ago

    this is why the NEWBIES sticky thread is so comprehensive

    what has changed is that since BEAVIS lost the parking companies have been issuing a raft or court claims , so best get this quashed by appeal , to BRITPARK and then to POPLA - IGNORING is for fools
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 5:18 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:18 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:18 PM
    Just out of interest... say I did have the receipts, surely it would just be a case of emailing them proof and it would be over or would I have to appeal as you have advised? Seems wrong to have to go through this process if they have sent NTK by mistake.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    you would appeal to the PPC and enclose copies of receipts and redacted bank statements as proof

    if they accepted this , they would cancel, but they dont have to and could still carry this saga on until you won in court , or 6 years has elapsed

    common sense rarely comes into these matters , greed and avarice rule
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 5:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:42 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 5:42 PM
    Thanks Redx, reading some of the threads on here makes me want to get a bus in future. How are these cowboys getting away with it.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 5:45 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    because not enough people complain to their MP about it

    so please do so, asking him/her to support the private members bill currently going through parliament (only the government can change this sc@m)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 5:56 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    Iíll look into that. DVLA must be laughing, they got to be charging these companies for all the information requests!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 6:15 PM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hello,
    Today I’ve received a PCN from Britannia with Photographs of my car from the 23rd of September showing correct entry and exit times to the car park. The contravention is stated as “failed to make valid payment”. We entered the car park at 15.19 and paid for an hour by cash, I don’t have the receipt so I’m assuming we paid around 15.22. We returned later and paid for another hour by card. I have checked with the bank and they said the transaction was made at 16.25. So, without the tickets to check the exact times, I may have been a few minutes late in paying for the second hour. We left the car park with lots of to spare so that’s not an issue.

    I have read the newbie post but didn’t think that was specific to my situation. Surely they can’t penalize me for a few minutes between the 2 payments (if that was the case).

    Any advice from you guys would be much appreciated. I have made no contact with them as of yet.
    Originally posted by jonboy269
    Did you read this thread yet? Britannia admitting to faults in their system:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5720939

    Make sure whatever you submit is from the keeper, and not implying who was driving.

    You can either use the template BPA member appeal in the NEWBIES thread, or write your own in the name of the keeper, stating that the driver did pay and display; they bought 2 tickets and you reckon the ANPR/PDT machine system is flawed, like the Britannia ANPR system is/was recently, at Southend College, as has been confirmed in the public domain.

    Either that, or they've failed to allow a fair grace period either side of paid-for time.

    Finish by encouraging them to cancel, because they can't hold a keeper liable anyway so they will be doomed at POPLA, and if they fail to supply a POPLA code you will be complaining to the BPA.

    Look out for emails going into your junk folder...in case it's the rejection/POPLA code.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 6:45 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    Iíll look into that. DVLA must be laughing, they got to be charging these companies for all the information requests!
    Originally posted by jonboy269
    plenty of info by umkomaas in here

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5717562
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    Would the following be ok, many thanks for your advice.

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that the driver did pay and display and purchased 2 tickets for which they have a bank statement confirming a payment to ďBritannia ParkingĒ for the day in question. The ANPR system is flawed, which was recently proven at Southend College and this information is now in the public domain. The only other explanation is you have failed to allow enough grace period between the 2 ticket purchases.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,


    THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 8:21 PM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Should you obtain the I believe you have obtained my registered keeper data from the DVLA without reasonable cause,
    Change the above, and you forgot the bit I already suggested you put at the end.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jonboy269
    • By jonboy269 2nd Oct 17, 8:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    jonboy269
    Thanks Coupon_m
    I have revised it. Does this look ok?


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that the driver did pay and display and purchased 2 tickets for which they have a bank statement confirming a payment to ďBritannia ParkingĒ for the day in question. The ANPR system is flawed, which was recently proven at Southend College and this information is now in the public domain. The only other explanation is you have failed to allow enough grace period between the 2 ticket purchases.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I believe you have obtained my registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days.

    I would encourage you to cancel this PCN as you are unable to hold the keeper liable and therefore your claim would be rejected if it was to go to a POPLA appeal. Failure on your behalf to supply a POPLA code would result in a complaint being made to the BPA. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,


    THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 8:58 PM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, go for it and keep proof (a screenshot of submission of a form, or the sent item email).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

214Posts Today

2,023Users online

Martin's Twitter