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  • FIRST POST
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 2nd Oct 17, 3:24 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 2Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    Ticket From VCS Brookshaw Sheffield
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 3:24 PM
    Ticket From VCS Brookshaw Sheffield 2nd Oct 17 at 3:24 PM
    My partners daughter allegedly overstayed in the above mentioned car park while driving partners car. Had one of their pseudo NTD's on windscreen. I received NTK as I am the registered keeper.


    I have appealed using the template in the newbies section and have now received a reply rejecting my appeal.


    What should I do now?


    Your valued advice would be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,985 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    you are now at the IMPASSE STAGE, where you IGNORE all communications EXCEPT an LBC or an MCOL , for 6 years
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 6:18 PM
    • 51,666 Posts
    • 65,325 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 6:18 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 6:18 PM
    I have appealed using the template in the newbies section and have now received a reply rejecting my appeal.

    What should I do now?
    Why do we get new threads by newbies wanting the 'next step' when there isn't one? Maybe I need to make it even clearer in the NEWBIES thread that IPC firms = ignore after the first pointless appeal.

    Come back if you get a small claim, but please don't post asking is that likely. From VCS not very likely, no, and they are certainly beatable. Nothing to worry about. Sit tight.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 3rd Oct 17, 12:24 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:24 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Oct 17, 12:24 PM
    Thanks for the advice.
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 7th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    I have now received a document from VCS titled 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings'.
    Do I need to respond to this or ignore please?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Nov 17, 10:01 AM
    • 15,873 Posts
    • 24,605 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 7th Nov 17, 10:01 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Nov 17, 10:01 AM
    I have now received a document from VCS titled 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings'.
    Do I need to respond to this or ignore please?
    Originally posted by RichieBoy56
    Definitely VCS, not Debt Recovery Plus?

    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 about how to respond to a LBA/LBCCC and respond robustly if it came from VCS.

    If itís from DRP - ignore it.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 7th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    • #7
    • 7th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Nov 17, 11:40 AM
    Yes, from VCS. I will read sticky post #2 again and compose a response.
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 7th Nov 17, 1:33 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    • #8
    • 7th Nov 17, 1:33 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Nov 17, 1:33 PM
    I know you don't like to spoon feed on this forum but having trawled through the Newbies Thread and other sites I cannot find a suitable rebuttal letter.
    The notice has been issued by VCS. They have not outlined the basis of their claim. They have quoted Beavis and the usual threat of a CCJ.
    I am minded to ignore until I get court papers.
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 7th Nov 17, 3:45 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    • #9
    • 7th Nov 17, 3:45 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Nov 17, 3:45 PM
    I have read more post and come up with the following rebuttal to VCS Notice of Intended Court Proceedings:


    Dear VCS,
    VCS Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Notice of Intended Court Proceedings


    Thank you for your letter of xxxxxxxx.


    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter.


    First, the alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.


    If your letter is intended to be a “Letter Before Claim” then I must inform you that it does not comply with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct. If you intend to continue with this futile claim then please issue a Letter Before Action that does comply with the Practice Direction within 14 days. I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.


    Please ensure that someone does actually read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that you intend to make against me as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.


    Yours faithfully


    Will this suffice?
    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 8th Nov 17, 1:14 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 292 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    It would be helpful if you could put up images of the NTK and 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings' (with personal details, VRM etc. blocked out).

    It will be interesting to see if the 'NICP' has changed from the one pictured in an older thread, pre the new Pre Action Protocol rules.

    What is the alleged contravention, you haven't said.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 8th Nov 17, 1:42 AM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 2,360 Thanks
    Lamilad
    I have now received a document from VCS titled 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings'.
    What letters/documents have you received so far, and have any come from BW Legal or are they all direct from VCS?
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 8th Nov 17, 10:36 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    I have scanned all docs but unsure how to upload.
    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 8th Nov 17, 10:52 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 292 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    I have scanned all docs but unsure how to upload.
    Originally posted by RichieBoy56
    You need to upload them to an image hosting website such as tinypic (others available) and then copy the URL for the image to here. Though as a new poster this forum won't allow you to type out a URL, you will have to replace the http at the beginning with hxxp and a regular poster will be able to convert it.

    Don't forget to block out/cover up your personal details i.e. name, address, vehicle reg, PCN number.
    Last edited by RobinofLoxley; 08-11-2017 at 10:58 AM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 17, 1:33 PM
    • 4,730 Posts
    • 3,060 Thanks
    KeithP
    I have read more post and come up with the following rebuttal to VCS Notice of Intended Court Proceedings:


    Dear VCS,
    VCS Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Notice of Intended Court Proceedings


    Thank you for your letter of xxxxxxxx.


    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter.


    First, the alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.


    If your letter is intended to be a “Letter Before Claim” then I must inform you that it does not comply with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct. If you intend to continue with this futile claim then please issue a Letter Before Action that does comply with the Practice Direction within 14 days. I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.


    Please ensure that someone does actually read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that you intend to make against me as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.


    Yours faithfully


    Will this suffice?
    Originally posted by RichieBoy56
    That letter is unsuitable.

    Where did you get that from?
    There hasn't been an 'Annex A' in the PD for years.

    You said yesterday you were going to look at post #2 of the NEWBIES for a response - as suggested by Umkomaas in post #6.

    There are robust up to date LBC response letters linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky/pinned thread.
    Last edited by KeithP; 08-11-2017 at 1:38 PM.
    .
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 8th Nov 17, 1:41 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    KeithP.
    I do appreciate everyones help on here but I posted earlier that I had look through post #2 of the Newbies Guide and couldn't find anything appropriate so I looked on other sites.
    It would be helpful if someone could provide a link to a suitable up to date LBC response letter please?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 17, 1:51 PM
    • 4,730 Posts
    • 3,060 Thanks
    KeithP
    Here's a picture of the first few lines on post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread:



    There are two links there.
    If your LBC was written after 1st October 2017, I would choose and adjust the second one.

    Hope that helps.
    .
    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 8th Nov 17, 2:10 PM
    • 175 Posts
    • 292 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    Without seeing it I'm guessing the 'Notice of intended court proceedings' is not an actual LBC but a "we may commence legal proceedings against you" unless you pay us now type letter.
    Still requires a robust response though.
    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 8th Nov 17, 2:38 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    Thank you for the link KeithP.


    This is my latest effort at an LBC rebuttal:




    Dear VCS,


    Date


    Your Ref:xxxxxxxxxxx


    Dear Sirs,


    I am in receipt of your Notice of Intended Court Proceedings of xxxxxx 2017.


    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence you place reliance upon.


    You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.


    Your notice lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.


    As you have a history of threatening court action you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter. As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that you are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced ' Notice of Intended Court Proceedings’ in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.


    Nobody is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.


    I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:


    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether you are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether you are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which you assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.


    Until you have complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


    Yours faithfully
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Nov 17, 12:26 AM
    • 51,666 Posts
    • 65,325 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    That looks good, when skim-reading.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RichieBoy56
    • By RichieBoy56 10th Nov 17, 8:29 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RichieBoy56
    Thanks C-m, I will send this off.
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