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    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 11:57 AM
    • 40Posts
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    SpaceisthePlace
    How to find out from charity if a freelancer got paid for 'voluntary' work I did?
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:57 AM
    How to find out from charity if a freelancer got paid for 'voluntary' work I did? 2nd Oct 17 at 11:57 AM
    Hello!

    I'm wondering if anyone can tell me whether organisations must disclose when asked details of invoices they've paid, specifically payments to freelancers.

    I volunteer at a local charity, and I strongly suspect another person (freelance) was paid in advance for a specific project, which was actually completed by me on a supposedly voluntary basis. I have no proof but it seems from the bits and bobs of information I've gleaned from the charity's manager that it's very likely this happened. They've been quite cagey so far.

    When I agreed to voluntary work I obviously didn't expect to be paid but then again neither did I expect another person to be paid for my work!

    Does anyone know if I can request that the charity show me the invoices for the project, and whether they have to do it or can refuse on the basis of confidentiality? I've no idea how I'd pursue this but I feel I need to know what's going on at least.

    Thanks in advance!

    SpaceisthePlace
Page 2
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 2nd Oct 17, 1:53 PM
    • 374 Posts
    • 555 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    What do you want out of this situation?

    Is it a large/ incorporated charity or a small unregistered one?
    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 1:59 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    SpaceisthePlace
    Good, so they can sue him for their money back.

    Unless of course they were daft enough to get you to do the work before his timescale for finishing it had elapsed, in which case they can't.

    There's no way where you getting paid makes any legal or moral sense.
    Thanks for both your comments. So he is not entitled to be paid for work he didn't do. Thank you for confirming this. I have no idea whether there was a timescale for completion and if so, what it was. If the payment did happen, it was several months in advance of the project being done.

    I feel compelled to point out that at no point did I say I was going to legally pursue the charity to get payment for this work. My query was initally about whether I could get proof that what I suspect occurred actually did. And yes I have read and understood the many comments saying that I cannot get it.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Oct 17, 2:35 PM
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    Comms69
    It's completely different, because this is not an employment situation, it's a freelance situation. You are getting a salary I presume. I am not. I am self employed and struggling. I volunteered my time and skills in good faith for a charity I believe in, and someone else got paid for my work. I didn't get to claim anything. I have no idea what exactly he invoiced for, as many people have helpfully told me I have no right to know, but it's likely it was several days, on a day-rate. He had nothing to do with the project in the end, he was on holiday the whole time.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace

    What you get is irrelevant though, if I was volunteering my boss would still be paid for what I did.

    He didn't outsource it. There was no agreement between him and me, that I would do his work for free. I was asked by the charity as a volunteer to do the project. The same charity that paid him to do it.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace


    No I just meant, he didn't have to do the work, he could've outsourced it and still been paid
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Oct 17, 2:36 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 335 Thanks
    Comms69
    Thanks for both your comments. So he is not entitled to be paid for work he didn't do. Thank you for confirming this. I have no idea whether there was a timescale for completion and if so, what it was. If the payment did happen, it was several months in advance of the project being done.

    I feel compelled to point out that at no point did I say I was going to legally pursue the charity to get payment for this work. My query was initally about whether I could get proof that what I suspect occurred actually did. And yes I have read and understood the many comments saying that I cannot get it.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace
    No-one can tell you for sure.


    If the contract was to have a project completed by date X and it was, then there is no reason for him not to be paid
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 2nd Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • 1,961 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Thanks for both your comments. So he is not entitled to be paid for work he didn't do. Thank you for confirming this. I have no idea whether there was a timescale for completion and if so, what it was. If the payment did happen, it was several months in advance of the project being done.

    I feel compelled to point out that at no point did I say I was going to legally pursue the charity to get payment for this work. My query was initally about whether I could get proof that what I suspect occurred actually did. And yes I have read and understood the many comments saying that I cannot get it.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace
    No, he is legally entitled to be paid for work he didn't do if the contract dictated that he would be paid and they later told him they didn't need it any more. He may even have already done it and just not given it to them. It really doesn't matter. If he was prepared to do it, and was paid in advance, they would struggle to get any court to return it. What question are you actually asking?

    What is your concern here? is it mismanagement by the charity or do you feel you have been personally wronged in some way?
    Last edited by ScorpiondeRooftrouser; 02-10-2017 at 2:40 PM.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 2nd Oct 17, 2:51 PM
    • 448 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    Listen mate I get you............


    If someone was paid for work you did voluntary. Then it sort of means you wasted your time volunteering as it cost the charity anyway. You may as well been paid.


    Ignore the rudeness just put it down to experience. You did a good thing and that's what counts. Next time you will be wiser.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 02-10-2017 at 2:53 PM.
    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    SpaceisthePlace
    What do you want out of this situation?

    Is it a large/ incorporated charity or a small unregistered one?
    I want to know what really happened with this project, and to know whether I am right about the freelancer being paid for my work. (I understand that I'm not entitled to see invoices. But it would be nice if the charity would admit it.) From there, I'm not sure. I'd face that when I came to it. At least I'd like an apology and an open discussion, as up till now the manager has been cagey and evasive. For me this is quite personal as I've been involved with the place for a long time, made friends and given a lot of my time. Obviously the charity deciding to pay me for this particular work would be ideal, I can't lie. But I know that's very unlikely.

    It's a local branch of a large nationwide charity.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 2nd Oct 17, 3:01 PM
    • 2,046 Posts
    • 2,957 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    That is out of order - I suggest you retract.
    Originally posted by hyubh
    Given you admit as much yourself ....
    Obviously the charity deciding to pay me for this particular work would be ideal
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace
    ...I think I'll leave it as it is.
    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 3:04 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    SpaceisthePlace
    So why did you bring up the fact you're struggling if it's irrelevant?

    Or did your moralistic mask slip up for a minute, and you've been exposed as being as dishonest and money-grubbing as said freelancer you're so jealous of? If that's the case, you won't get the answer looking for here - you're beyond help.
    Because it's easy for a commenter to say 'My boss gets paid for my work, no biggie' when they are a salaried employee.

    You seem to need to cool off a bit. Maybe go for a walk, or eat an orange.
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 2nd Oct 17, 3:04 PM
    • 2,255 Posts
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    trailingspouse
    I totally get where you're coming from.

    You donated your time in good faith, to carry out a project on behalf of a charity.

    Someone else comes along, who works on a freelance basis, and (knowingly or otherwise) invoices the charity for the work you'd done, as if he'd done it himself.

    And you're concerned because you feel the charity has been cheated out of it's hard-earned money.

    I think all you can do is raise your concerns with management. Explain that you are worried that they've paid for something to be done when it had actually been done for free. Beyond that, there's not much you can do about it.

    At the end of the day, you're just trying to help by pointing out an unnecessary spend - but they might not want to listen. If the charity wants to waste their money, that's their call - but I would be looking for another charity to support.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 2nd Oct 17, 3:05 PM
    • 9,734 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    Voice your concerns at national level if you feel either somebody has been paid for work they didn't do or that you should have been paid instead. But the charity will not disclose financial arrangements between themselves and third parties (other than donations where prior agreed)
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 2nd Oct 17, 3:05 PM
    • 2,857 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    If I was the manager I would be cagey as well, especially as you seem unwilling to let this drop and would wonder what agenda you had for pursuing this matter.


    Would it be to get payment for it or would it be to highlight some financial irregularity within the branch - and I can only assume that it's the later as you've said you've willingly given your time in the past.


    So I guess the answer is no you don't but my question to you is if you'd been told he had, what would you have then done with that information ?
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 3:10 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    SpaceisthePlace
    ...I think I'll leave it as it is.
    So let me get this right.

    Freelancer who gets paid for work he doesn't do = all good, nothing to see here
    Me, longtime volunteer who does some work for free that said freelancer got paid for, who when asked 'What do you want out of this situation?' admits that some money for said work would be ideal = jealous money-grubber

    Can't fault your logic.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 2nd Oct 17, 3:12 PM
    • 1,961 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I totally get where you're coming from.

    You donated your time in good faith, to carry out a project on behalf of a charity.

    Someone else comes along, who works on a freelance basis, and (knowingly or otherwise) invoices the charity for the work you'd done, as if he'd done it himself.

    And you're concerned because you feel the charity has been cheated out of it's hard-earned money.

    I think all you can do is raise your concerns with management. Explain that you are worried that they've paid for something to be done when it had actually been done for free. Beyond that, there's not much you can do about it.

    At the end of the day, you're just trying to help by pointing out an unnecessary spend - but they might not want to listen. If the charity wants to waste their money, that's their call - but I would be looking for another charity to support.
    Originally posted by trailingspouse
    No, that's all wrong. They had already paid the freelancer. Then they asked the OP to do it before the freelancer had had the chance to complete it. He didn't "come along" and invoice for work he hadn't done.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 2nd Oct 17, 3:13 PM
    • 1,961 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I want to know what really happened with this project, and to know whether I am right about the freelancer being paid for my work. (I understand that I'm not entitled to see invoices. But it would be nice if the charity would admit it.) From there, I'm not sure. I'd face that when I came to it. At least I'd like an apology and an open discussion, as up till now the manager has been cagey and evasive. For me this is quite personal as I've been involved with the place for a long time, made friends and given a lot of my time. Obviously the charity deciding to pay me for this particular work would be ideal, I can't lie. But I know that's very unlikely.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace

    Why do they owe YOU an apology? You've lost nothing. You've done work for free that you agreed to do for free.

    If they owe anyone an apology, it's the donors to the charity whose money they have wasted.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Oct 17, 3:16 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 335 Thanks
    Comms69
    Because it's easy for a commenter to say 'My boss gets paid for my work, no biggie' when they are a salaried employee.

    You seem to need to cool off a bit. Maybe go for a walk, or eat an orange.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace


    Me being paid is totally irrelevant. If I volunteer and do work which my boss is responsible for, they still get paid.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 2nd Oct 17, 3:17 PM
    • 1,961 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    So let me get this right.

    Freelancer who gets paid for work he doesn't do = all good, nothing to see here
    Me, longtime volunteer who does some work for free that said freelancer got paid for, who when asked 'What do you want out of this situation?' admits that some money for said work would be ideal = jealous money-grubber

    Can't fault your logic.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace
    Nobody is saying this is fine. People are saying the charity could demand their money back, but only if they gave him the chance to complete the contract. If he didn't do what he was supposed to do in the time he was supposed to do it, he is in the wrong. If the charity got you to do it before he had a chance to, they have been stupid and wasteful.

    The fact remains that you, personally, have not been cheated as you seem to think you have. If you want to raise the possible wastefulness of the charity, then go ahead and do so. But you will be doing so on the part of the donors and beneficiaries of the charity, who are the only ones losing out. Paying you would only make them lose out more.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Oct 17, 3:19 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 335 Thanks
    Comms69
    So let me get this right.

    Freelancer who gets paid for work he doesn't do = all good, nothing to see here - Yes that could easily be legally fine. Your morals and ethics don't really come into it (except you may decide not to volunteer again)
    Me, longtime volunteer who does some work for free that said freelancer got paid for, who when asked 'What do you want out of this situation?' admits that some money for said work would be ideal = jealous money-grubber - Well you were never owed the money so cant really help

    Can't fault your logic.
    Originally posted by SpaceisthePlace
    I just don't see why you think you having a say over the charities finances is with-in your remit
    • SpaceisthePlace
    • By SpaceisthePlace 2nd Oct 17, 3:31 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    SpaceisthePlace
    No, he is legally entitled to be paid for work he didn't do if the contract dictated that he would be paid and they later told him they didn't need it any more. He may even have already done it and just not given it to them. It really doesn't matter. If he was prepared to do it, and was paid in advance, they would struggle to get any court to return it. What question are you actually asking?

    What is your concern here? is it mismanagement by the charity or do you feel you have been personally wronged in some way?
    He hadn't already done it. The project was completed, from scratch, by me. He was on holiday when the project was being done, having already invoiced and been paid for the work. He knew that the project deadline was coming up and went on holiday anyway rather than stick around and do the work he'd been paid to do.

    The question I originally asked was can I get proof of him being paid for my work. That's been answered.

    My concern is the unfairness of recruiting a volunteer and then paying someone else for that volunteer's work. Yes I feel personally wronged. I have been volunteering here for years and trusted and made friends with all the people involved in this situation. They have withheld information and that has personally hurt, but it also is part of a lack of transparency in the charity that could affect other volunteers, and points to behaviour in the freelancer and manager which is unethical and bad for the charity.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 2nd Oct 17, 3:31 PM
    • 448 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    No, that's all wrong. They had already paid the freelancer. Then they asked the OP to do it before the freelancer had had the chance to complete it. He didn't "come along" and invoice for work he hadn't done.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser

    What a sensible use of resources!!
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 02-10-2017 at 3:36 PM.
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