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  • FIRST POST
    • letsbehonest
    • By letsbehonest 2nd Oct 17, 9:31 AM
    • 929Posts
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    letsbehonest
    Not enough skilled people!
    • #1
    • 2nd Oct 17, 9:31 AM
    Not enough skilled people! 2nd Oct 17 at 9:31 AM
    I read from time to time that there are just not enough skilled people for the available jobs. My son in law who lives in Stoke on trent is a fully trained Army R.E.M.E engineer with project management qualifications as well as other add on's. He drives trucks to try and make ends meet, what a waste of talent. He has applied for hundreds of job's I might add through various agencies but after just a couple of phone interviews nothing. Come on G.B. you are wasting our off the shelf talent.
    "Imagination is more Important than knowledge"
Page 1
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 2nd Oct 17, 10:03 AM
    • 2,106 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:03 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:03 AM
    Truck driving is a perfectly respectable job. What do you expect him to be doing? I don't think anyone is ever claiming that there aren't enough people with project management qualifications; you can barely move without stepping on one.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 2nd Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    • 2,227 Posts
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    ReadingTim
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:29 AM
    What "not enough skilled people" often means is 'not enough skilled people to do a skilled job at unskilled job wages' - or words to that effect.

    Whether this is the fault of the employer for not paying enough, the employee for having unrealistic wage demands in the face of competition from immigrants or from overseas in a global labour market, or the fault of the government and the economy for meaning that the wage that is being offered isn't thought to be enough to live on really depends on your political point of view.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 2nd Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    • 4,727 Posts
    • 7,512 Thanks
    Gavin83
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:49 AM
    My son in law who lives in Stoke on trent is a fully trained Army R.E.M.E engineer with project management qualifications as well as other add on's.
    Originally posted by letsbehonest
    He could become a mechanic as that seems to be where his experience lies. What jobs has he been applying for?

    Whether this is the fault of the employer for not paying enough
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    I'd always suggest it's the employers fault. If you can't get people at the salary you're offering then the fault will always lie with the people who are setting the salary. Similar goes for selling goods, if a business can't sell a product because it's priced too high you can't really blame the consumers for not being willing to pay it.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 2nd Oct 17, 10:56 AM
    • 5,772 Posts
    • 28,268 Thanks
    bugslet
    • #5
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:56 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:56 AM
    He could become a mechanic as that seems to be where his experience lies. What jobs has he been applying for?



    I'd always suggest it's the employers fault. If you can't get people at the salary you're offering then the fault will always lie with the people who are setting the salary. Similar goes for selling goods, if a business can't sell a product because it's priced too high you can't really blame the consumers for not being willing to pay it.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    There goes the contradiction. If you price an item high and pay staff highly, then it doesn't sell. Price it low to get the sales, then you can't afford to pay staff.

    On big contracts it's the customer that sets the price and then you have to make your business costs fit and unfortunately it's often the employee pay that a business has the most control over. Take my business - I have two main costs, fuel and driver pay. I can't control the price of diesel, I can control the driver's pay. (As it happens I'm in a niche market and pay above average).

    I agree Gavin with the principle behind what you say, but it does depend on the profit margin of the company a lot, how much flexibility they have.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 2nd Oct 17, 10:58 AM
    • 5,772 Posts
    • 28,268 Thanks
    bugslet
    • #6
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:58 AM
    • #6
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:58 AM
    Do you know why he gets turned down OP? Is it that thee is something lacking in his qualifications/training that an additional course might help with? I'm wondering if what the Army teaches does not always translate into the commercial world?
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 2nd Oct 17, 11:03 AM
    • 30,421 Posts
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    DCFC79
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:03 AM
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:03 AM
    You say your SIL had 2 telephone interviews, maybe he didn't do well in the interviews.

    Applied for hundreds so is he tailoring the application ?

    Has he tried sending speculative applications to employers who would have a need for his skills ?
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • NineDeuce
    • By NineDeuce 2nd Oct 17, 11:06 AM
    • 540 Posts
    • 480 Thanks
    NineDeuce
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:06 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:06 AM
    What about if he has a really badly written CV or a bad attitude? When did having a qualification give entitlement to a lucrative career?
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 2nd Oct 17, 11:11 AM
    • 60,993 Posts
    • 356,267 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:11 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 11:11 AM
    The shout of "not enough skilled people" never actually identifies what there is a shortage of - and where that is.

    It might be that the skills are for "robot engineers with 5 years post-graduate experience who live near London", or "microsurgeons for eye surgery with 10 years' post-PhD experience, who live near a major eye hospital".

    Until "they" tell us what there's a shortage of and in which locations .... we'll all have to sit on our skills/experience thinking there are no jobs to use them.
    • ssparks2003
    • By ssparks2003 2nd Oct 17, 12:27 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    ssparks2003
    Having a project management qualification is not exactly going to put him at the top of the pile since the main qualifications are a week long training course, and not too taxing. How many major projects has he delivered on? On paper he knows which end of a gantt chart is which, but does he have any demonstrable experience, if not he would have to start at the lowest level
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 2nd Oct 17, 12:49 PM
    • 2,934 Posts
    • 1,523 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    Maybe just in the wrong part of the country.

    I was watching interview vid's only other day and can totally resonate with something that was mentioned of being able to try seeing if like/can do jobs 'whilst in them', but, seems some parts of UK are different.

    250 applications was one job for 16-18k, got to pity the person who had to whittle it down to 4 or so! Though they said they deliberately didn't run the ad in the summer time!

    So it's right place, right time and all about the numbers. Genuiness of job.
    As much as skills.
    There is likeability to and if the person fits the culture to be considered.

    I know someone from RN ended up self employed consultant - never worked for another employer.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 2nd Oct 17, 12:53 PM
    • 1,356 Posts
    • 1,377 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    Has he served in the forces? I watched an interesting segment on TV documenting how ex forces people face discrimination due to being stereotyped.
    Maybe he is skilled but its not specific enough? What was the feedback from the interviews? Has a professional scrutinised his CV?
    I do think its harder to find work than 10 years back. I started applying back in Feb and only got an offer 2 weeks back.
    We have to face facts that if your relative was such a catch he probably wouldn't even have to apply, he would be headhunted. I'm sure he does have lots of good skills but so do hundreds of other people. No offence meant here, I'd apply the same to myself. It just takes time.
    Last edited by Fireflyaway; 02-10-2017 at 12:55 PM.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 2nd Oct 17, 1:00 PM
    • 1,936 Posts
    • 2,450 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    250 applications was one job for 16-18k, got to pity the person who had to whittle it down to 4 or so! Though they said they deliberately didn't run the ad in the summer time!
    Bro-in-law used to whittle down job applications before selecting those suitable for interview. Many (sometimes most) of the applicants didn't even have the minimum qualifications specified, and so didn't make the first cut. He thought that many applied for any job they saw advertised just so they could add it to their 'job search' list for the benefits office.
    • ringo_24601
    • By ringo_24601 2nd Oct 17, 2:06 PM
    • 17,103 Posts
    • 27,801 Thanks
    ringo_24601
    The shout of "not enough skilled people" never actually identifies what there is a shortage of - and where that is.

    It might be that the skills are for "robot engineers with 5 years post-graduate experience who live near London", or "microsurgeons for eye surgery with 10 years' post-PhD experience, who live near a major eye hospital".

    Until "they" tell us what there's a shortage of and in which locations .... we'll all have to sit on our skills/experience thinking there are no jobs to use them.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    Who is 'they'? There is no central job agency...

    You need to look to the media -

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3592534/Britain-s-demand-jobs-revealed-pay.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/11602670/Here-are-the-workers-most-in-demand-in-the-UK.html

    or

    http://www.visabureau.com/uk/shortage-occupations-list.aspx

    So basically:

    Engineers
    Nurses
    Software Developers
    Consultants
    Recruitment Consultants
    Teachers
    Administrators
    Chefs
    Designers (digital)
    Sales Executives

    We're sorted in our house with my missus being a nurse and I'm a Software developing Consultant.

    But where are the jobs? Probably in the major cities I would guess. Probably not in Stoke-on-Trent
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 2nd Oct 17, 3:11 PM
    • 4,727 Posts
    • 7,512 Thanks
    Gavin83
    There goes the contradiction. If you price an item high and pay staff highly, then it doesn't sell. Price it low to get the sales, then you can't afford to pay staff.

    On big contracts it's the customer that sets the price and then you have to make your business costs fit and unfortunately it's often the employee pay that a business has the most control over. Take my business - I have two main costs, fuel and driver pay. I can't control the price of diesel, I can control the driver's pay. (As it happens I'm in a niche market and pay above average).

    I agree Gavin with the principle behind what you say, but it does depend on the profit margin of the company a lot, how much flexibility they have.
    Originally posted by bugslet
    You make very good points. It's a balancing act for a business with staff who want more money and customers who want to pay less while still making a profit. However the only thing I'm sure of is that's it never the fault of the potential employee who refuses the job because the salary isn't high enough.

    As for the OP's post we can't really give any meaningful information until they return and answer some of the questions. At the moment it's a little light on details. For all we know he's applying for jobs as a brain surgeon.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 2nd Oct 17, 3:40 PM
    • 2,227 Posts
    • 3,152 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    However the only thing I'm sure of is that's it never the fault of the potential employee who refuses the job because the salary isn't high enough.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    You can't always even go that far - whilst you can't blame someone for not taking a job because they don't think it pays enough, you do have to test whether their salary expectations are realistic enough regarding the pay of the sorts of jobs they're looking at, and the sort of lifestyle the potential employee thinks should be supported by that sort of job. This becomes more relevant the less skilled the role is, and the ease with which it can be performed elsewhere in the world.

    As you say, not everyone's going to be a brain surgeon. Not everyone's going to be paid like one either.
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