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  • FIRST POST
    • hannah9000
    • By hannah9000 1st Oct 17, 10:23 PM
    • 185Posts
    • 67Thanks
    hannah9000
    Should I sue?!
    • #1
    • 1st Oct 17, 10:23 PM
    Should I sue?! 1st Oct 17 at 10:23 PM
    I moved into a property (3 storey barn conversion) on 1st Sept. Within a week I had daily complaints from the landlady saying the lady who lived in the flat below said our TV was too loud, my son was too noisy playing and my two dogs made too much noise. She even went to the extent of recording us on a dictaphone which the landlady played back to me.

    Now, it's been mutually agreed between myseld and landlady that I should leave - I work fulltime and I want to relax at home, I don't want to have my floor knocked on everytime my boy plays with his diggers. I wasn't informed of the lady living below at any point during viewing or signing up to the property. The first I knew of her was when the complaints came in. The property is managed by the LL but marketed by an agent. The agent agreed to refund my referencing fees, he offered half and when I said I'd go to the ombudsman he quickly offered a full refund HOWEVER I had to buy a cooker when I moved in and put fencing around the garden, total cost for cooker and fencing £300. I'm going to have to pay moving costs again, van hire etc, uproot my 5yr old again and try and sell this bloody cooker.

    Should I be trying to reclaim more costs? The landlady was desperate to get me in here as she responded to my ad in the post office which stated I had a child and dogs, the applicants before me failed their credit check and she didn't want to lose out on rent. She says the lady below me is anxious and nervy about noises and that I should take the children round to the old barn to play and put my dogs outside in a shed!!!

    Its a 12 month tenancy agreement with 2 months notice, however I'll be leaving after a month. As I signed the tenancy agreement that states a months notice, the 2 months notice was an afterthought and the amended page was sent seperately about 2 weeks after I'd moved...i haven't signed it though.
    *Hannah Banana*
    Declared BR 19/12/08
    ED granted 18/08/09

    Awaiting Baby B due 14th May 2012
Page 2
    • G_M
    • By G_M 2nd Oct 17, 1:50 PM
    • 42,221 Posts
    • 49,016 Thanks
    G_M
    You could rightly ignore all parties and continue to live there as you wish.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    within reason.

    * a child playing is reasonable, unless perhaps they have ADHD or some other specific issue that makes them unnaturally noisy, or they play late a night etc
    * dogs that are permitted by the tenancy agreement are reasonable provided their noise is not excessive by the standards of the 'dog on the top deck of a Clapham omnibus' (!) ie an average dog.

    If you decide to leave because you don't like the downstairs neighbour and/or their activities, that's your choice, so at your expense.

    If the landlord asks you to leave beccause they want to keep the downstairs neighbour happy, that's the LL's choice, so at the LL's expense.

    And thse expenses, whatever they are, should be part of the agreement to end the tenancy
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 2nd Oct 17, 3:58 PM
    • 5,532 Posts
    • 4,916 Thanks
    00ec25
    It wasn't my fault the fact there is someone living below me happened to slip both the letting agent and the LL's minds!!!!! The farm has cows and indeed early milking, that's not a problem at all...not sure what you're getting at?!
    Originally posted by hannah9000
    heh?

    so you viewed a property which was very obviously not one that you entered at ground floor level, yet you regard it as someone else's fault that you failed to ask what happens below?

    welcome to the modern world of the blame game and inability accept one's own mistakes in life
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 2nd Oct 17, 4:49 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
    • 4,097 Thanks
    bouicca21
    The fact that the tenant below taped the noise and the landlady toolkit seriously suggests that it might be rather more than everyday noise.
    • aneary
    • By aneary 2nd Oct 17, 5:06 PM
    • 799 Posts
    • 699 Thanks
    aneary
    The fact that the tenant below taped the noise and the landlady toolkit seriously suggests that it might be rather more than everyday noise.
    Originally posted by bouicca21
    Depends if there is carpet or not or decent sound proofing probably not on a barn conversion.

    The previous tenant could have been single and rarely there, therefore not so much noise.
    • hannah9000
    • By hannah9000 2nd Oct 17, 6:16 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    hannah9000
    heh?

    so you viewed a property which was very obviously not one that you entered at ground floor level, yet you regard it as someone else's fault that you failed to ask what happens below?

    welcome to the modern world of the blame game and inability accept one's own mistakes in life
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    Its a three storey conversion. It is joined to the main farmhouse, I assumed it was part of the farmhouse below.
    *Hannah Banana*
    Declared BR 19/12/08
    ED granted 18/08/09

    Awaiting Baby B due 14th May 2012
    • hannah9000
    • By hannah9000 2nd Oct 17, 6:20 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    hannah9000
    The fact that the tenant below taped the noise and the landlady toolkit seriously suggests that it might be rather more than everyday noise.
    Originally posted by bouicca21
    We're not noisy people. The fact the tenant below taped the noise (which the landlady played back to me and I couldn't hear anything!!!) suggests she's a wack job who has nothing better to do with her time. She smokes in her property which comes into mine under a joining door. I haven't complained about that despite having lung disease.

    The insulation is poor, the lounge is carpeted with office carpet and the rest of the house is laminate which echoes like mad.
    *Hannah Banana*
    Declared BR 19/12/08
    ED granted 18/08/09

    Awaiting Baby B due 14th May 2012
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 2nd Oct 17, 7:04 PM
    • 5,532 Posts
    • 4,916 Thanks
    00ec25
    Its a three storey conversion. It is joined to the main farmhouse, I assumed it was part of the farmhouse below.
    Originally posted by hannah9000
    We're not noisy people. The fact the tenant below taped the noise (which the landlady played back to me and I couldn't hear anything!!!) suggests she's a wack job who has nothing better to do with her time. She smokes in her property which comes into mine under a joining door. I haven't complained about that despite having lung disease.

    The insulation is poor, the lounge is carpeted with office carpet and the rest of the house is laminate which echoes like mad.
    Originally posted by hannah9000
    all of which merely shows that you failed to undertake "due diligence" before you accepted the rental given you, and you alone, know what matters to you
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 2nd Oct 17, 10:51 PM
    • 2,630 Posts
    • 2,934 Thanks
    glasgowdan
    So... the tape recording was silent. Why, oh why, is the Landlady going along with the notion of you moving out? Why are you agreeing to move out? It just doesn't add up. The normal thing would be for all parties to ignore the silly complaints... they won't go on forever. If the ceiling banging starts, crank the noise up. And speak to her to say that's what you're doing. Hopefully the banging will soon stop.
    • RobertoMoir
    • By RobertoMoir 3rd Oct 17, 6:07 AM
    • 3,376 Posts
    • 4,103 Thanks
    RobertoMoir
    If the tape recordings are silent then I am not sure why either yourself or the LL are giving them any credence.

    It sounds like there’s some sound there for you to agree to leave because of it, surely?
    It does sound like the LL has poorly designed the conversion if there’s lots of laminate floors in an upstairs flat. The downstairs tenant does seem to be over-reacting but laminate floors are noisy.

    I’m not sure why you agreed to leave after buying a cooker and a fence. I’m not sure why a tenant would buy a cooker or fence at all, actually.
    Last edited by RobertoMoir; 03-10-2017 at 6:12 AM.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 3rd Oct 17, 6:07 AM
    • 16,111 Posts
    • 39,994 Thanks
    FBaby
    We're not noisy people.
    That always make me smile when people say that! Everyone has different standard of what 'noisy' is and my experience of the threshold of families with dogs and young children tend to me much higher than average.

    What I don't understand here is why the LL is getting involved. It's not her problem and she doesn't owe the person below you to make sure you are quiet, even if they are her tenants too. It's between then and you. So either she has an issue with you and is using this as an excuse, or she really really like the other tenant and would much rather have you out than then giving their notice, it doesn't make sense.

    In the end, you can have your cake and eat it. You want out, you agree to the deal and do so. You want out and compensation, you negotiate with them, but they don't have to oblige. You don't want to incur additional costs, you refuse to move out.
    • armchaireconomist
    • By armchaireconomist 3rd Oct 17, 11:10 AM
    • 183 Posts
    • 215 Thanks
    armchaireconomist
    You can't sue your landlady for a mutually beneficial (and agreed) split.


    If I were you I'd just ask that all my costs be covered and deposit etc. returned, otherwise you can legally stick out your tenancy. Sounds like the problem is her other tenant, not you.
    • nkkingston
    • By nkkingston 3rd Oct 17, 11:50 AM
    • 446 Posts
    • 504 Thanks
    nkkingston
    Depending on the construction of the conversion, it's possible that the floor is actually magnifying the sounds below so it's louder down there than it is in your flat.If there's a gap between your floor and the neighbour's ceiling, sounds that occur against the floor (footsteps, toy diggers, vibrations from the TV speakers) sound will echo like a tumble dryer rumbling on a wood pallet.

    I am a little concerned that if the tape sounds silent to you, but the landlord is taking it seriously, that it might be worth getting your hearing checked, It's also possible you're making more noise than you realise.
    Mortgage
    June 2016: £93,295
    December 2017: £79,667.26
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 3rd Oct 17, 12:23 PM
    • 803 Posts
    • 1,176 Thanks
    parkrunner
    We're not noisy people. The fact the tenant below taped the noise (which the landlady played back to me and I couldn't hear anything!!!) suggests she's a wack job who has nothing better to do with her time. She smokes in her property which comes into mine under a joining door. I haven't complained about that despite having lung disease.

    The insulation is poor, the lounge is carpeted with office carpet and the rest of the house is laminate which echoes like mad.
    Originally posted by hannah9000
    What did the landlady say when the recording was silent?
    • Scotbot
    • By Scotbot 3rd Oct 17, 12:33 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    Scotbot
    Children in my experience are extremely noisy
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 3rd Oct 17, 1:31 PM
    • 2,835 Posts
    • 2,869 Thanks
    cjdavies
    heh?

    so you viewed a property which was very obviously not one that you entered at ground floor level, yet you regard it as someone else's fault that you failed to ask what happens below?

    welcome to the modern world of the blame game and inability accept one's own mistakes in life
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    The downstairs tenant should also take blame being on the ground floor, knowing there would be upstairs neighbours.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 3rd Oct 17, 2:08 PM
    • 983 Posts
    • 664 Thanks
    saajan_12
    We've agreed mutually that I should leave, which its fine as I don't want to tiptoe around my own home. But I was hoping to recover some costs.
    Originally posted by hannah9000
    The noise is irrelevant really, neither the noise nor neighbour's complaints are enough to allow either LL or tenant to unilatterally end the contract. The key is what has been agreed.
    1. Date of termination
    2. Arrangements until then (allow viewings? check out date?)
    3. Whether / how rent apportioned
    4. What happens with deposit
    5. Any fees / costs to be paid

    If this has been agreed, you should follow that mutual agreement to terminate which replaces the original tenancy agreement. There is nothing to sue for as noone has breached the new mutual agreement to terminate.

    If it has not been finalised, then you may still be able to negotiate fees but either party is able to say no and continue the status quo. If the LL is more keen, you may be able to negotiate letting agent fees, full deposit back, moving costs, money for inconvenience..
    If you are more keen, they may be able to negotiate retaining some deposit, rent until new tenant found, re advertising costs, reletting, referencing etc fees..
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 3rd Oct 17, 2:22 PM
    • 16,111 Posts
    • 39,994 Thanks
    FBaby
    The downstairs tenant should also take blame being on the ground floor, knowing there would be upstairs neighbours.
    Unless they've lived there for 10 years with tenants above and no problem until now.
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