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  • FIRST POST
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 30th Sep 17, 5:08 PM
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    mightbedave
    UKPC PCN - Julian's Car Park Didcot
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 17, 5:08 PM
    UKPC PCN - Julian's Car Park Didcot 30th Sep 17 at 5:08 PM
    [Just had to set up a new user name as original could give my name away]

    The driver of my car recently got a PCN on the windscreen at this car park. Basically payment was made by Ringgo (the only payment option) but later in the day and before returning to the car. The tariff is a fixed rate for the whole day. The PCN was issued before payment was made.

    The signs in the car park are so poor that I am confident of winning on that basis at POPLA appeal stage. E.g.
    - Entrance sign does not state that the car park is managed and there is no mention of UKPC
    - The main sign in the car park doesn't make any reference to a penalty charge for not paying the tariff or any other terms and conditions - also no mention of UKPC on that sign.
    - There is a small UKPC sign with the full terms but this was genuinely not seen by the driver.

    None of the signs say when the tariff has to be paid.

    Given the tariff was paid but after the PCN was issued is it worth adding this to the POPLA appeal? Or should I leave it out and stick to the standard appeals as outlined in the NEWBIE thread - majoring on the poor signage, and leave out the payment info?

    The slight complication is that I was with the driver at the time and paid the tariff on my phone under my name. I genuinely was not the driver though.

    Thanks in advance - I'll keep you updated on the result of my appeal.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th Sep 17, 5:19 PM
    • 16,923 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 17, 5:19 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 17, 5:19 PM
    add details of the payment without inferring who was driving

    as an "occupant" of the vehicle if necessary

    try not to blab too much in any additional wording , sometimes less is more , keep your powder dry for popla
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 30th Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    • 4,757 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 17, 6:31 PM
    Check Ringgo. Did you enter the registration number correctly?
    .
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 30th Sep 17, 6:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 17, 6:36 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 17, 6:36 PM
    Check Ringgo. Did you enter the registration number correctly?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Yes, it was entered correctly. Timeline was roughly:

    11:40 Entered car park
    12:00 PCN issued
    16:00 Paid tariff for whole day parking by Ringgo
    20:00 Returned to car and exited car park

    Basically the driver forgot to pay in the rush to catch a train. Then remembered later in the day.

    No signs in the car park state when payment has to be made.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Oct 17, 1:36 AM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,416 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 1st Oct 17, 1:36 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Oct 17, 1:36 AM
    Given the tariff was paid but after the PCN was issued is it worth adding this to the POPLA appeal? Or should I leave it out and stick to the standard appeals as outlined in the NEWBIE thread - majoring on the poor signage, and leave out the payment info?
    No, have that as your first appeal point, that the terms were not breached because payment for all day was made as soon as the App could be used that day, which was well before returning to the car park and leaving. Since the signs do not state that payment must be made within any particular time during the period of parking and the car driver certainly did not leave without paying, and there can be no breach by 'not displaying' either, when using an App, there is no contractual breach in this instance that can give rise to a parking charge.

    I was with the driver at the time and paid the tariff on my phone under my name. I genuinely was not the driver though.
    State that to POPLA at the start of the appeal, so they know how come yo are able to report what happened - say you were a passenger and are the keeper of the car, and your phone was used to pay the tariff that day, but you were not the driver.

    And add all the usual template stuff for POPLA from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread. Show us!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 1st Oct 17, 9:23 AM
    • 2,585 Posts
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    fisherjim
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 17, 9:23 AM
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 17, 9:23 AM
    The signage (according to Streetview) at this car park is woefully inadequate and as you say the entrance sign just shows a parking sign with an arrow.
    However where did you get the idea that you can only pay by Ringo?

    There are four coin pay machines at the entrance and a typically rubbish UKPC sign that does not conform to the BPA COP (whatever they might say) but it does say "pay and display" with a breakdown of tarrifs.
    Ringo also states that time can be bought by the hour.

    UKPC will try to say you walked past the signs and machines on the way to the station, POPLA will agree and the "pay and display" instruction shows payment must be made within the grace period of entering.
    This car park is twenty years behind the times, with no anpr or barriers it's my opinion is it's pretty obvious you can't pay when you think you can so how can they keep on top of it?

    However that does not excuse the rubbish signage and if the muppets at UKPC want to pretend to enforce parking management they should spend some cash and bring the site up to date, but that won't trap people will it.

    You must concentrate on the signage and be prepared for rebuttal of their usual BPA have audited the site, because either they haven't or the BPA are a bigger joke than we think!

    http://bit.ly/2xS3Vrk
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 1st Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    • #7
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    The signage (according to Streetview) at this car park is woefully inadequate and as you say the entrance sign just shows a parking sign with an arrow.
    However where did you get the idea that you can only pay by Ringo?
    Originally posted by fisherjim
    The Streetview images are out of date. RingGo is now the only payment option. Here is a view of the entrance sign from the main road taken a couple of days later. You can just about see the pay and display machines are covered with black bags. They have signs on the other side saying RingGo is the only option.

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view?usp=sharing

    Replace xxxxx with https
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 1st Oct 17, 12:45 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    • #8
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:45 PM
    More photos...
    • #8
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:45 PM
    Can't post links so replace xxxxx with https

    Close up of the entrance sign:

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9bmx5TDUzUnlKNEE/view?usp=sharing

    Main sign as viewed from where car was parked:

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b2FlNjFiWGU4TUk/view?usp=sharing

    Close up of main sign:

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9eDV4aThmekZSTkk/view?usp=sharing

    Sign from back of car park used in UKPC online evidence, although this is my photo as small text was not readable in their version:

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9SjJSSThZZkJkZm8/view?usp=sharing

    (RingGo is spelt wrong on this sign lol)
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    • 4,757 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 17, 12:48 PM
    The Streetview images are out of date. RingGo is now the only payment option. Here is a view of the entrance sign from the main road taken a couple of days later. You can just about see the pay and display machines are covered with black bags. They have signs on the other side saying RingGo is the only option.

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view?usp=sharing

    Replace xxxxx with https
    Originally posted by mightbedave
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view

    You need to get better pictures of the pay machines being covered, and pictures of that sign that says RingGo only.
    .
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 1st Oct 17, 12:49 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    Ringo also states that time can be bought by the hour.
    Originally posted by fisherjim
    The incident took place at the weekend, so you are right that you can pay by the hour Mon-Fri but at the weekend paying for the whole day is the only option.
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 1st Oct 17, 12:54 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    You need to get better pictures of the pay machines being covered, and pictures of that sign that says RingGo only.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks, I'll get one when I am back there next week. This photo of the UKPC sign states to pay by Ringo (sic), but I'll get a better one because the machines all have big RingGo signs on the front.

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9SjJSSThZZkJkZm8/view?usp=sharing
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 1st Oct 17, 1:38 PM
    • 2,585 Posts
    • 3,848 Thanks
    fisherjim
    The Streetview images are out of date. RingGo is now the only payment option. Here is a view of the entrance sign from the main road taken a couple of days later. You can just about see the pay and display machines are covered with black bags. They have signs on the other side saying RingGo is the only option.

    xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view?usp=sharing

    Replace xxxxx with https
    Originally posted by mightbedave
    Ok so hopfully UKPC will trip themselves up at POPLA they are basically useless muppets that make mistakes with their greed, and their incentivised profit centres, sorry attendents aren't the brightest sparks either.
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 2nd Oct 17, 10:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    You need to get better pictures of the pay machines being covered, and pictures of that sign that says RingGo only.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Here's a picture of the pay and display machines covered in RingGo signs.
    xxxxx://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7_eCPr5UmQ9Ynh6M3dIYmxWYTA
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 2nd Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    • 4,757 Posts
    • 3,107 Thanks
    KeithP
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9Ynh6M3dIYmxWYTA/view

    That's good.

    Will be useful in your appeal, and subsequently if necessary.
    .
    • mightbedave
    • By mightbedave 25th Nov 17, 10:38 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mightbedave
    UPDATE

    Hi all, just to update on this.

    I appealed the PCN on day 25 using the standard template with an additional line saying that payment was made for the full day via RingGo.

    I have now received a response from UKPC on day 38 since my appeal (dated as day 35). They have requested evidence showing the start time and end time of the RingGo payment. They have asked for this within 14 days. No POPLA code was included.

    There is a generic paragraph about POFA but I am pretty sure this letter does not qualify as a NTK (and it would be too late anyway.)

    I am minded to just ignore this letter and wait for the POPLA code to take it further. I assume this is the right thing to do?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 25th Nov 17, 11:00 PM
    • 1,166 Posts
    • 1,204 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Or send the documents as requested, suitably anonymous. Then they can’t complain
    • Louise Brown
    • By Louise Brown 10th Dec 17, 12:23 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Louise Brown
    Same problem
    Hiya
    I was just wondering how you got on with this?

    I am in a similar situation with the same carpark. I tried to pay for parking using Ringo but had problems with signal making the call whilst on the train (can evidence phonecalls from the same day prior to the parking charge notice being issued). I eventually was able to download the app and made payment for the full day around 6 minutes after the parking notice was issued.

    Would be helpful to know whether you've had any luck and whether I should fight this.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Dec 17, 12:46 AM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,416 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You need to read the NEWBIES thread, not post here. See my signature below. Two clicks.

    And if that's your real name, ask MSE to change your username, before you post again.

    OMG don't register a username on a public forum, talking about a parking ticket, if that is your actual name!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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