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  • FIRST POST
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 30th Sep 17, 1:19 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 6Thanks
    dawnyp72
    Sons grandfather passed away
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 17, 1:19 PM
    Sons grandfather passed away 30th Sep 17 at 1:19 PM
    We found out yesterday that my sons paternal grandfather had passed away 18 months ago. My sons dad passed away 3 years ago and was an only child. As far as I know the only other living relatives he has are newphews and nieces who he wasn’t particularly close to, so unless he left a will stating otherwise, my sons stand to inherit.
    I discovered that the house he owned was sold at auction just over a week ago.
    How do I find out if he left a will or if it went to probate? and if it did would they have tried to find my sons?
    We only found out he had died when we went to his house and spoke to a neighbour. It wouldn’t have been difficult to find my sons but nobody has contacted them.
Page 2
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 1st Oct 17, 12:43 PM
    • 3,152 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    POAs cease upon death. It is possible, but unlikely that an attorney could sell the house while the owner was still alive but not to transfer it to themselves.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 1st Oct 17, 12:45 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    This is exactly what I was thinking. Wonder if the title can be traced back further? There was nothing to stop someone with Power of Attorney registering it in their own name. Does seem a very quick turn around on the Land Register though, if it was only sold a short while ago.
    Originally posted by Margot123
    Wrong! The attorney, assuming it was a LPOA or EPOA is specificly not allowed to deal in this way. They can only tack action that benifits the donor of the POA.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 1st Oct 17, 1:22 PM
    • 619 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    seashore22
    Wrong! The attorney, assuming it was a LPOA or EPOA is specificly not allowed to deal in this way. They can only tack action that benifits the donor of the POA.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Exactly. There are very strict rules about what someone with POA for a relative can do do. Putting property in their own name is NOT one of the things that are ok to do. Before or after death.
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 1st Oct 17, 1:57 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dawnyp72
    What if he hadn’t appointed a POA. He led a very simple life, when his wife passed away a few years ago, he didn’t even have a bank card or know how to use a cash machine. His son had to sort everything out for him. It is quite possible that he passed away without leaving any instruction to anyone.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 1st Oct 17, 3:49 PM
    • 3,152 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    What if he hadn’t appointed a POA. He led a very simple life, when his wife passed away a few years ago, he didn’t even have a bank card or know how to use a cash machine. His son had to sort everything out for him. It is quite possible that he passed away without leaving any instruction to anyone.
    Originally posted by dawnyp72
    If there was no will then the house could not have been sold without letters of administration being applied for and granted. This would show up on the probate list.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 01-10-2017 at 6:01 PM.
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 1st Oct 17, 5:25 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dawnyp72
    So if it did go to probate & letters of administration were granted to another family member & they have now sold the house, is it too late for me to find out if my boys would have been entitled to anything?
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 1st Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    • 60,272 Posts
    • 352,136 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    If they were entitled, they would still be entitled.
    If they were "robbed", they will still be entitled and the executor could be prosecuted for misappropriating funds.

    You need to find out who did it all ... and what was supposed to happen .... and what did happen.

    Then you will know if they have the money waiting for you, or if there was nothing coming your way ... or if you were "robbed".

    He could have simply left a Will to his son, the one you mentioned that sorted out his banking/cards after his wife died (the son's mother?) - and he may have legally copped for the lot, through a Will.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 1st Oct 17, 5:46 PM
    • 619 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    seashore22
    I think the son is the father of the op's children and has died. I don't think he is around to inherit anything.

    Not sure of the timescales though - who died before who.
    Last edited by seashore22; 01-10-2017 at 5:50 PM.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 1st Oct 17, 5:55 PM
    • 8,596 Posts
    • 53,043 Thanks
    Ms Chocaholic
    The father of the boys died 3 years ago, the grandfather 18 months ago (as per OP's 1st post)
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 1st Oct 17, 6:37 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dawnyp72
    Yes that’s right. His son (my boys Dad) passed away 3 years ago.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 1st Oct 17, 9:16 PM
    • 29,997 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Wrong! The attorney, assuming it was a LPOA or EPOA is specificly not allowed to deal in this way. They can only tack action that benifits the donor of the POA.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Exactly. There are very strict rules about what someone with POA for a relative can do do. Putting property in their own name is NOT one of the things that are ok to do. Before or after death.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    there is a big difference between what the law says you can do and what you can do.

    There is no statutory oversight Of LPA
    • Ziggazee
    • By Ziggazee 2nd Oct 17, 1:18 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 571 Thanks
    Ziggazee
    Instead of speculating on here, your best starting point is to make a search on the gov.uk site to see if Probate/Letters of Administration have been granted.


    If the deceased died having made a will and did not include his grandchildren then so be it. If he died intestate then Letters of Administration will have been granted in order to sell the house. You will be able to obtain a copy of either document.
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 2nd Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dawnyp72
    I phoned the probate office today. They have found him in their records. He did not leave a will but probate was applied for and was granted 21/09/2016. I now have to order a copy of the probate records which can take up to 10 working days.
    I also contacted the auctioneers who sold the house, they said it was ‘sold on behalf of a company’??? and gave me the name of the solicitor who instructed them to sell. I am now waiting to hear back from the solicitor to find out if they dealt with the probate or if they know who did.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 2nd Oct 17, 5:53 PM
    • 5,057 Posts
    • 10,310 Thanks
    iammumtoone
    Do you know the approx value of the estate?

    Is it possible that some heir hunters have picked it up and maybe looking for your sons?
    • Jenniefour
    • By Jenniefour 2nd Oct 17, 6:06 PM
    • 1,162 Posts
    • 1,140 Thanks
    Jenniefour
    At least you will know who to contact to find out what the position is, and you now know there wasn't a will.

    House sold by a company - I wonder if grandfather might have had an equity release scheme on his property, as those companies, in some circumstances, take charge of the property sale themselves and then refund the remaining money to the estate. However, that's a guess, and there could easily be another explanation.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 2nd Oct 17, 10:49 PM
    • 3,152 Posts
    • 2,477 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    We all need to wait until the OP has the probate. The is no point in more speculation until then. Good to hear the OP is making progress.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 2nd Oct 17, 11:00 PM
    • 8,596 Posts
    • 53,043 Thanks
    Ms Chocaholic
    Thanks for keeping us updated OP, hoping it all goes well for you and your boys.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
    • dawnyp72
    • By dawnyp72 3rd Oct 17, 12:00 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dawnyp72
    Thank you to everyone for the advice you have given me. I really didn’t know where to start.
    I will update with any progress or further questions I might have, if that’s ok.
    Thanks again.
    • Ms Chocaholic
    • By Ms Chocaholic 16th Oct 17, 8:13 PM
    • 8,596 Posts
    • 53,043 Thanks
    Ms Chocaholic
    Wondered how you were getting on Dawnyp72.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till The End

    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
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