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  • FIRST POST
    • traybonoaholly
    • By traybonoaholly 28th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    • 20Posts
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    traybonoaholly
    annual holiday
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    annual holiday 28th Sep 17 at 7:17 PM
    Hi there.
    can i ask is it ok for an employer to suddenly say to staff that nobody is allowed to book any holiday for the next 3 months as the budget is low and so not able to cover costs of people being off work.
    i work in retail and in our contract it states holidays should be split over the year march-april. it also says that holidays may be denied during busy times of easter and christmas, it states no other times.
    we work in a place where only so many staff can be off at any one time. however the calender is not fully booked our manager is just saying we cant take any holiday until after xmas so for the next 3 months. This will cause alot of annoyance as it not justified. It then means all staff will be then fighting to take their holiday between jan-end of march. but as so many people will still have holiday left to ise they wont be able to as he will deny it as too many people would be off. theres no way 30 staff can all take 2 weeks in the space of 3 months as hed never allow that. so in the end he will say no this side of xmas and then no after xmas. this is seeming really unfair. is this legal. it hasnt come from hr it has come from our mnager himself
Page 1
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 28th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    • 2,868 Posts
    • 1,503 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    Best your colleagues all group together on this one. Honestly People Power! This happened in our dept recently when we all wanted phone headsets on our desk, we got there in the end 5 against 1 took a few convo's but we got there because we all felt same.

    I remember couple of years ago when a colleague was let go because her holiday had to be denied yeah for 5 days which had been double booked we watched someone go out the door - the gov ending up having to allow her time off to go to other interviews. Just imagine a group of people doing this!

    Hoping your colleagues feel as strongly as you do x
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 28th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    • 18,515 Posts
    • 14,230 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    Yes, your employer can say when holidays can be taken, it doesn't have to be in your contract. But they can't prevent them being taken altogether, so you really need to discuss with your manager when you will all be able to take your remaining holidays.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 28th Sep 17, 9:38 PM
    • 30,008 Posts
    • 17,934 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 9:38 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 9:38 PM
    . theres no way 30 staff can all take 2 weeks in the space of 3 months as hed never allow that.

    do the numbers and ask them how they will meet their legal obligations to allow people to take their holiday.

    get them to put a holiday plan in place from now for the rest of the holiday year.

    Also point out that financial difficulties are actually made worse by having people come into work and get paid as they still have to be paid for the holiday.

    By having people take holiday you reduce your financial liabilities.

    The competence of the manager is suspect they need more training if they don't do something to plan the holidays for the year and just want to create a back up of holidays and do the you cant take them escalate before it is too late

    The fall back for the employee is they resign so they terminate before the end of the holiday year and then they get the holiday paid.

    mass resignation in the NY will draw attention to the problem if not fixed..
    Last edited by getmore4less; 29-09-2017 at 5:30 AM.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 28th Sep 17, 11:01 PM
    • 4,889 Posts
    • 6,112 Thanks
    theoretica
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 11:01 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 11:01 PM
    As the poster above says, ask to sort out now a holiday plan for the rest of the leave year. Might help the manager see the problems you see.

    It is the issue Ryanair are facing, which might mean more awareness of it, and how serious it is.
    Last edited by theoretica; 28-09-2017 at 11:04 PM.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • JReacher1
    • By JReacher1 29th Sep 17, 7:39 AM
    • 2,615 Posts
    • 3,600 Thanks
    JReacher1
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:39 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:39 AM
    In fairness your contract says holidays may be denied during the busy period of Christmas and Easter. For retail we are now entering the Christmas trading season and although early, October to December could be considered the Christmas shopping season.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 29th Sep 17, 8:20 AM
    • 3,130 Posts
    • 3,821 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 8:20 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 8:20 AM
    [B]
    Also point out that financial difficulties are actually made worse by having people come into work and get paid as they still have to be paid for the holiday.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    That is wrong.

    it doesnt matter when a FT employee takes holiday as they are paid regardless,

    BUT in retail they often fill the missing FT employees shift with a zero hours contract workers.

    If there are no holidays they are only paying the FT employee, but for the weeks they offer Zero hour contract shifts they effectively pay 2 people, the person on holiday and the cover.

    This kicks the cover cost can down the road in to the next budget year for the store.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Sep 17, 10:17 AM
    • 30,008 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 10:17 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 10:17 AM
    That is wrong.

    it doesnt matter when a FT employee takes holiday as they are paid regardless,

    BUT in retail they often fill the missing FT employees shift with a zero hours contract workers.

    If there are no holidays they are only paying the FT employee, but for the weeks they offer Zero hour contract shifts they effectively pay 2 people, the person on holiday and the cover.

    This kicks the cover cost can down the road in to the next budget year for the store.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    Not if you meet your obligation to let the FT take the holiday and the holiday and financial year align only works if the holiday year ends after the financial year and there is a window to take the holiday and use cover.

    If money is short you need to employ people for fewer hours and use up the holiday liability.
    • traybonoaholly
    • By traybonoaholly 2nd Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    traybonoaholly
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 2:02 PM
    Our contract doesn't say specifically run up to Christmas it says holidays should not be taken during December and easter week only
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 2nd Oct 17, 3:07 PM
    • 30,008 Posts
    • 17,934 Thanks
    getmore4less
    As well as pointing out the flaws in the proposal get all your holidays booked for the rest of the holiday year so you have evidence that if you can't take them it is the company stopping you, they then can't use the use or loose because you never asked to take them.
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