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  • FIRST POST
    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 28th Sep 17, 2:26 PM
    • 7Posts
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    JM0809198
    HELP NEEDED! Received County Court Claim Mail Sent to Wrong Address
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:26 PM
    HELP NEEDED! Received County Court Claim Mail Sent to Wrong Address 28th Sep 17 at 2:26 PM
    Hello there!

    To begin with I have received a number of debt recovery letters and a LBCC (from Gladstones on behalf of UKCPM) to an address that I no longer reside at, although I know the person currently living at the property so I've been kept informed. Its now got to the stage where I've recieved a county court claim as I wrongly ignored the LBCC. I know that I'll probably be referred to the NEWBIE #2 thread (If I still have a chance to fight this) but I just wanted to know what steps I should take beforehand, shall I call the UKCPM as the registered keeper of the vehicle and state that the post they've been sending out has been sent to the wrong address?

    secondly, I'm quite baffled that I have even recieved debt recovery letters as there has never been a ticket on my car and I never recieved the NTK letter. I called UKCPM and they stated that the letters were sent out and that they would send me proof that the charge was a valid one but I havent received any evidence.

    Apologies if this sounds ridiculous and has already been covered, I just want to make sure that I make the correct choices from now onwards (having messed up already!) so would appreciate the advice!

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 28th Sep 17, 3:02 PM
    • 579 Posts
    • 697 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 3:02 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 3:02 PM
    Well firstly now you HAVE the form, are you in time to acknowledge it?

    If you can do so, do it. NOW. Online. No dealy, and at the same time - tell us the issue date. Once AOS is done, you have 33 days from that date for the court to have RECEIVED your printed, signed, scanned and emailed defence.

    How long ago was the alleged event? it says on the claim form. If you are outside of the 14+5 day AOS, call the court, see if a default judgement has been applied for. If it has you will likely need to appluy to set aside the judgement on the gorunds that the forms were not correctly served on you. This costs £255. So as you can imagine, the more details we have, the better

    Even if you can work it out, do NOT tell ANYONE who drove. Thi is vital. At MOST they are called "the driver".
    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 28th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 4:51 PM
    Thank you for the swift reply!

    Apologies the issue date for the county court claim was on the 22/09/17 and the the parking charge date was on 03/01/2017. They are charging me £240.90 (amount claimed - £165.90, court fee - £25 and legal representative's costs - £50).

    Shall I inform UKCPM of my change of address? all the documentation I have received from them has been sent to my old address.

    Also I've had a browse on past cases but is there one that deals specifically with 'no parking outside of a marked bay' charges. I haven't seen any photographic evidence from UKCPM so I'm not sure if they are penalising me for parking outside of the markings (which aren't entirely clear) or for parking in another residents designated parking bay.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 28th Sep 17, 5:34 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 5:34 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 5:34 PM
    Go to the Newbies faq thread near the top of the forum

    There you will find advice on dealing with a court claim, including a link to a walkthrough on how to send your acknowledgement.

    Do this now to get an extra 14 days to construct your defence.

    The FAQ has lots of advice on defences.

    Come back with your draft defence for comments

    You do need to make sure that ukcpm and the court has your correct address
    Last edited by Quentin; 28-09-2017 at 5:38 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Sep 17, 8:09 PM
    • 50,604 Posts
    • 63,999 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:09 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:09 PM
    Shall I inform UKCPM of my change of address? all the documentation I have received from them has been sent to my old address.
    Well no, because you will be filing a defence which will be sent to their solicitors, Gladstones, and obviously you can use that to mention your new address, before launching into the usual defence wording we tend to use v Gladstones.

    Also I've had a browse on past cases but is there one that deals specifically with 'no parking outside of a marked bay' charges.
    So stop looking for that (of course there are tons of such defences on this forum, all won, just not all linked in the Sticky thread or people would die of boredom or give up reading it). You've presumably searched the forum, must have found some defences about being parked 'out of bay' or in a 'restricted area'. I can even remember one or two like that from last month, they are so common, and we win.

    But more importantly, you appear to have been penalised in your own residential location, so obviously the example to adapt will be Johnersh's ''own space'' defence, based on what you've said:
    I'm not sure if they are penalising me for parking outside of the markings (which aren't entirely clear) or for parking in another residents designated parking bay.
    What does your lease say about parking, or permits, or parking charges of £100?

    Are you a tenant or a flat owner?

    What did the bumf say that the permit came with?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 28-09-2017 at 8:12 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 29th Sep 17, 1:10 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 1:10 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 1:10 AM
    Thank you Quentin I'll be sure to do that..

    Thanks for the advice CM, I should have done a more thorough search.

    At the time of the alleged breach I wasn't a tenant (I'm a tenant now) but I had a permit which was handed to me by the tenant at the time (its a residential car park).

    Also regarding the lease it doesn't really mention much in relation to parking as there was no one managing the car park at the time the lease was provided, it only mentions 'we may need to make and enforce regulations on those parking areas from time to time and will tell you about them'. I did ask for the contract that they have with UKCPM to be emailed over to me to which the phone operator replied he would get someone to get in touch with me (err do you want my email address)...doubt I'll get anything to be honest.

    I did recently attempt to get the landowners to cancel the charges but to no avail, they were most unhelpful and stated 'there's nothing we can do as we've handed it over to UKCPM to manage so you will have to speak to them directly'.

    Along with the aforementioned frustrations I have It isn't always possible to park within bayline markings, I recall numerous occasions where residents have parked outside of bay markings which then has a knock on effect on fellow residents who consequently can't park within their bays! especially if you need the extra room to get children out of your car etc, although I doubt this would hold any weight in a court of law.

    I will attempt to put a defence together sometime tomorrow, I really appreciate all of the feedback given!
    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 3rd Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Oct 17, 7:50 PM
    I still haven't put together my draft defence but have doing a bit of research on the forum.

    Just for reassurance purposes, will the fact that I havent responded to the LBC and other letters (never recieved NTK) work against me in court? I'm sure UKCPM will mention the lack of a response in court.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    • 50,604 Posts
    • 63,999 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Oct 17, 10:55 PM
    It might cause the Judge a fleeting moment of thought, but you just say that the letters had all the hallmarks of a scam and was just the sort of operation that has appeared on Watchdog, etc.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 10th Oct 17, 12:24 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 12:24 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 17, 12:24 AM
    Thanks CM!

    Can anyone advise me as to what the main points of my argument should be.

    I genuinely don't remember who was driving at the time. I know the parking permit scheme came into practice around a month before the apparent contravention (I had a valid permit displayed) . There was no lighting installed at the time either, as well as bay markings which aren't entirely clear, there is no signage at the entrance of the car park either (although it's a small residential car park with about 15 spaces) . I also have the issue of not receiving a notice to keeper letter and no ticket was placed on my car window...
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 10th Oct 17, 9:27 AM
    • 511 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Surprise! The claim form is sent to your old address when the pre-action correspondence has also been arriving there (and you decided not to tell them of your change of address)!

    1. Write to Gladstones and the Court to confirm your new address for service

    2. Regarding the defence you appear to have listed a number of relevant points. Permits may well be permissible given that the lease terms refer to possible enforcement/variation of parking terms.

    However the issue sounds like a white line infringement rather than a failure to display the tenants permit, which was lent to you. If that is the case, ideally you're going to need the photos before you draft the defence. This is particularly important if, as you say, other cars parked awkwardly have pushed you out of the designated bay.
    Last edited by Johnersh; 10-10-2017 at 9:30 AM.
    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 10th Oct 17, 7:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    Thanks Johnersh.

    Yes I have informed them. I have a family member at my old address so I'm kept informed regarding any post I might recieve. Although I never at any point received a NTK (which is strange considering I wasn't given a window ticket)!

    I will ask them to send me a photo of the contravention, would I admit that I'm the driver if there seems to be a valid reason for not parking wholly within the bay? Another issue I might have is if the adjacent car had moved when the photo was taken, if the contravention wasn't due to another car then I guess I have the argument of no lighting and inability to see the signage (due to lack of lighting and font size etc).

    I know this might be a slightly silly question so please forgive me, but when you put your defence together with references to previous cases do you bring the whole document of a past case in with you (highlighting the parts you intend to use) or just the parts of the case you plan to use in your defence. (ie a few pages instead of 100 or so pages). And are most of the cases easily accessible online?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    • 579 Posts
    • 697 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Defence is merely words. No attachments, photos etc. Just the arguments

    Much later on you write a witness statement and reference from the statement any evidence you want to bring.
    • JM0809198
    • By JM0809198 11th Oct 17, 1:04 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JM0809198
    I have received the pictures from UKCPM and it seems that the driver (not sure who was driving) has parked out of the bay markings and the car on the right of it has parked within the markings, whilst the space on the left is vacant and next to a wall so there would appear to be no room for another car to park there regardless.

    I guess I won't be able to use that arguement (regarding the adjacent car being parked out of its bay, although who's to say that the car on the right wasnt initially out of its bay and returned to park appropriately). Any advice on this?!

    Should I focus on writing a defence which argues the other points that I made instead...

    Many thanks for all your help!
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