Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 28th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Mark381
    PPI Claim Rejected, then refunded, then reversed
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    PPI Claim Rejected, then refunded, then reversed 28th Sep 17 at 2:01 PM
    Hi everyone,


    I hope some of the experts here can take a look over this sequence of events for me.


    1. My credit card PPI claim was rejected by Capital One
    2. The claim was rejected by the Ombudsman
    3. Several weeks later, a series of transactions appeared on my account over the span of a few days and are as follows:


    -A large CREDIT named "PPI Plevin credit"
    -Another significant CREDIT named "PPI Plevin BB Goodwill"
    -A DEBIT named "Tax Withheld on Plevin BB"
    -A very large DEBIT (much more than the two credits combined) named "Purchase Adjustment"
    -My account then goes into the red and I am charged an over-limit fee as a result of the large debit
    -A CREDIT named "Plevin Tax reversal"
    -A DEBIT named "Plevin ERC reversal"
    -A DEBIT named "Plevin Finance charge reversal"
    -A CREDIT named "Credit to Purchase balance"


    After all transactions I am left at my original balance, minus a fee for temporarily going over my limit due to the large debits they transacted.


    My questions are:
    1. If the claim was rejected why did they go through all those refunds and reversals?
    2. How can they charge me an over-limit fee when it was them who put the account in the red as a result of all those credits and reversals?
    3. What does it mean "credit to purchase balance"? Have they sold my debt to a third party? My account has always been in good standing and I always make my payments on time and have never had any issues other than trying to claim back PPI that I believed was mis-sold.


    Thanks for any help on this.
Page 1
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 28th Sep 17, 2:20 PM
    • 1,843 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:20 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:20 PM
    1. Human error. We all make mistakes sometimes.
    2. If you contact them and explain what has happened I'm sure they'll reimburse the charge. They might even give you a little extra to apologise.
    3. It's an adjustment, a credit to your account. Nothing to suggest they have sold on your debt.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 28th Sep 17, 2:23 PM
    • 14,387 Posts
    • 15,181 Thanks
    zx81
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:23 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:23 PM
    Looks like admin confusion. Ask them to remove the fee and any over limit marker.

    Your account hasn't been sold. It's a credit adjustment.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 28th Sep 17, 2:47 PM
    • 18,900 Posts
    • 10,121 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:47 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:47 PM
    It's an annoying error, but one I would expect the bank to swiftly rectify and compensate you for.

    You don't have to worry that your debt has been "sold"
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 29th Sep 17, 6:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 17, 6:43 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 17, 6:43 PM
    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your answers. Is there any way for me to find out why the Ombudsman decided in their favour, ie. what Capital One provided to them to convince them they were right and I was wrong?
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 29th Sep 17, 6:59 PM
    • 1,843 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 6:59 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 17, 6:59 PM
    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your answers. Is there any way for me to find out why the Ombudsman decided in their favour, ie. what Capital One provided to them to convince them they were right and I was wrong?
    Originally posted by Mark381
    They should have explained their reasons in the decision letter. If they didn't give them a call.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 29th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • 18,900 Posts
    • 10,121 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    Is there any way for me to find out why the Ombudsman decided in their favour, ie. what Capital One provided to them to convince them they were right and I was wrong?
    Originally posted by Mark381
    You should be supplied with the full details of the adjudication by the Ombudsman very shortly.

    Do note, though, that the Bank did not necessarily "provide" them with anything at all if your complaint was an unprovable allegation.
    • Nearlyold
    • By Nearlyold 29th Sep 17, 7:07 PM
    • 984 Posts
    • 817 Thanks
    Nearlyold
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:07 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 7:07 PM
    As above the Ombudsman's letter should explain, were your complaint reasons all genuinely your own thoughts or did you use a template letter? The latter can sometimes catch you out as many of the "template complaints" I've seen often have contradictory complaint reasons such as "I was told I had to have it" and "it was added without my knowledge" its not possible for both to be true
    Last edited by Nearlyold; 29-09-2017 at 9:47 PM.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 3rd Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    Thanks for the further replies. To answer the question, no I did not use any template. The information I provided was all genuine and my own thoughts. I did not know there were templates or help resources when I filed my complaint. I strongly believe PPI was added without my consent. I do have the original application form on which I stated that I did not want PPI. I sent this to the Ombudsman. Capital One claimed that I must have asked for it to be added to my account by phone but they were not able to provide any record of the phone call or any evidence of the supposed conversation.


    The letter from the Ombudsman did not acknowledge that I implicitly declined PPI and that due to my circumstances I would not have needed such insurance. They just gave me what looked very much like a copy&paste telling me that they thought I was not mis-sold PPI. Their decision came back in just a few days so they certainly can't have spent much time looking into the case, despite initially telling me that it would take months because of a huge backlog.


    Capital One have been very sketchy with all this PPI stuff. When I first asked them to cancel it they assured me it was cancelled, yet it still appeared on subsequent statements.


    Oh well, the mighty Ombudsman has spoken (via a generic copy-paste response) and that's all there is to it. I will be paying off the account and closing it asap and will never deal with Capital One again.


    Thanks so much for everyone's help, I really appreciate it. Thank goodness there is such a wonderful resource as this.
    • -taff
    • By -taff 3rd Oct 17, 9:00 PM
    • 7,170 Posts
    • 5,161 Thanks
    -taff
    You can refer your complaint to an actual Ombudsman not an adjudicator if you're still unhappy. This doesn't mean they will rule in your favour though.

    Your complaint is very weak. You saw on your statements a charge for insurance but didn't cancel it.

    And you can't implicitly decline it. You explicitly decline it.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 3rd Oct 17, 11:17 PM
    • 18,900 Posts
    • 10,121 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    I strongly believe PPI was added without my consent.
    Originally posted by Mark381
    Unfortunately for you, this is something you'll never be able to prove or anyone else is likely to find evidence of. In truth, it's far more likely that you've simply forgotten about the PPI or never read any of the documentation you signed your agreement to. It's a myth sponsored by Claim Companies that PPI was routinely added without the knowledge and permission of the customer.

    You can certainly appeal the initial FOS decision and an actual Ombudsman will look at your complaint. However, your chances of success are slim with only that reason.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 4th Oct 17, 1:07 AM
    • 89,892 Posts
    • 56,567 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Thanks for the further replies. To answer the question, no I did not use any template. The information I provided was all genuine and my own thoughts. I did not know there were templates or help resources when I filed my complaint. I strongly believe PPI was added without my consent. I do have the original application form on which I stated that I did not want PPI. I sent this to the Ombudsman. Capital One claimed that I must have asked for it to be added to my account by phone but they were not able to provide any record of the phone call or any evidence of the supposed conversation.
    Most Cap One PPI is added after application. Typically over the phone.

    The letter from the Ombudsman did not acknowledge that I implicitly declined PPI and that due to my circumstances I would not have needed such insurance.
    You declined at point of sale but as Cap One say it was added post sale, your original decline means nothing.

    Their decision came back in just a few days so they certainly can't have spent much time looking into the case, despite initially telling me that it would take months because of a huge backlog.
    The FOS have the Cap One sales process for the various periods on their records. Your complaint reason doesnt appear to be a strong one. So, not much time is needed.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 7th Oct 17, 9:10 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381
    Hi,


    Yes, so basically, Cap One call you up after you decline PPI during the application and hassle you, pressure you and manipulate you to take out PPI, believing it is mandatory in your situation. Then a decade and several thousand pounds later when you learn that it was never a requirement to have PPI and you try to get that money back, they tell you your case is not valid and you're not getting that money back. An independent organisation is established to attempt to make things fair and they side with the bankers. Good old banks! What a lovely bunch of people. Everyone knows now that PPI and how it was pushed onto millions of people was a big scam.


    Oh well, upwards and onwards as they say. Cap One have lost multiple customers as my family are closing our accounts and moving elsewhere. That's the only "karma" I can squeeze out of this situation. And I will enjoy explaining to them just why we are closing our accounts. Thanks again to everyone for your help. You're brill!
    Last edited by Mark381; 07-10-2017 at 9:13 PM.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 7th Oct 17, 9:12 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381

    And you can't implicitly decline it. You explicitly decline it.
    Originally posted by -taff

    Yes I meant explicitly.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Oct 17, 11:20 PM
    • 89,892 Posts
    • 56,567 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Yes, so basically, Cap One call you up after you decline PPI during the application and hassle you, pressure you and manipulate you to take out PPI, believing it is mandatory in your situation.
    They certainly use a sales process on you. However, they cannot manipulate you into believing it is mandatory as you already have the card and credit limit in place before they make that call. So, you know its not mandatory.

    Then a decade and several thousand pounds later when you learn that it was never a requirement to have PPI and you try to get that money back, they tell you your case is not valid and you're not getting that money back.
    They look at your complaint and the available evidence and if there is evidence that points towards a wrongdoing, they uphold it. If there is no evidence that points towards a wrongdoing, they reject (apart from auto-payouts which just pay out without even looking at the complaint - typically smaller value cases).

    An independent organisation is established to attempt to make things fair and they side with the bankers. Good old banks!
    They are an independent arbiter of complaints. They look at both sides and analyse the evidence available. Much the same as a court of law but slightly consumer biased.
    . Everyone knows now that PPI and how it was pushed onto millions of people was a big scam.
    What about all the people that have benefited from PPI?
    Why is PPI still available today to buy if its bad?
    Dont mix up product with sales process.

    Cap One have lost multiple customers as my family are closing our accounts and moving elsewhere.
    And have probably signed up hundreds in the same time it took for your family to end their relationships. And realistically, your family probably have little or no cap one accounts. However, it is the only weapon you have if you feel aggrieved. If more did it, then it would matter. Most wont though.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 12th Oct 17, 1:13 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381
    Here's an update: In a bizarre new twist I have just been told by Cap One that a refund is on its way to me in the form of a cheque by post. So they denied my claim, then the Ombudsman denied it, then they refunded me via a credit on my account, then they reversed that credit and now they have sent me a cheque.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 12th Oct 17, 1:20 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381

    Why is PPI still available today to buy if its bad?
    Dont mix up product with sales process.
    .
    Originally posted by dunstonh

    Out of interest, do you work in finance? Cap One no longer offer PPI since this whole PPI thing was exposed. That says enough. And I didn't mix up product with sales process.
    • Mark381
    • By Mark381 12th Oct 17, 1:30 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mark381

    And have probably signed up hundreds in the same time it took for your family to end their relationships. And realistically, your family probably have little or no cap one accounts.
    Originally posted by dunstonh

    Yes probably hundreds, maybe thousands. And your point is that I'm just a small fry to them, which is accurate. But my point was that by closing our accounts they would be losing out on several thousand pounds in interest over the next 5 or 10 years. If a company is deceitful to me or wrongs me, I vote with my wallet and take my business elsewhere. Interestingly though, they have now issued a PPI refund.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 12th Oct 17, 1:35 PM
    • 18,900 Posts
    • 10,121 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Cap One no longer offer PPI since this whole PPI thing was exposed. That says enough. And I didn't mix up product with sales process.
    Originally posted by Mark381
    Financial institutions no longer offer PPI on loans and credit cards because of the whole mis-selling scandal, not because of the product. PPI is still retailed on mortgages, obviously with a much tighter control on the sales process.

    You should also note that your PPI refund will not have been because of your claim that it was added without your consent or knowledge. That allegation is a myth sponsored by claim companies to entice people to sign up with them.

    How much did you receive back? If a small amount, the Bank could even have refunded without any investigation..
    • Stevek668a
    • By Stevek668a 19th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Stevek668a
    Hi Mark
    This may already have been solved but the same happened on my cap one card although Iím still waiting for the refund. Itís a refund through the placing ruling rather than ppi misselling. Iím not sure if the ins outs but something to do with cap one making a silly amount of commission on your ppi (someone else on here might be able to give better information).

    Hope you got a decent refund!
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,283Posts Today

7,125Users online

Martin's Twitter