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    • turquoise88
    • By turquoise88 28th Sep 17, 1:31 PM
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    turquoise88
    Please help me know which EDF tarriff is best!
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 17, 1:31 PM
    Please help me know which EDF tarriff is best! 28th Sep 17 at 1:31 PM
    For context, I live in a small three bed semi with husband and young daughter.


    We live in a new build estate with Economy 7 night storage heaters. We quickly discovered that the output of heat from them is rubbish, so have stopped using them. We are both out every weekday and home evenings and weekends.


    Instead, we use two small electric heaters (one upstairs and one down) in the evenings. We use washing machine and tumble dryer for maybe 2-3 loads per week, but are trying to cut down. We have an immersion heater for hot water, which is on every other night for baths.


    We are currently on Blue+ Price Promise 2018 and paying £113.00 per month, which seems extortionate.


    I've received some advice from friends, who have said I will always pay loads if I'm not on a "dual rate tariff" and not using storage heaters correctly. At the risk of sounding special, I have no idea what this means. I've tried to speak to EDF to ask for advice about which tariff would be best, but I just keep getting directed to the online tariff selector, which doesn't help me.


    Could someone please offer me a dummies guide and tell me if and where I'm going wrong? Thank you!



    Last edited by turquoise88; 28-09-2017 at 1:35 PM.
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 28th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    • 4,650 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    In simple terms, storage heaters are designed to be used on a dual rate tariff. The storage heaters use low price energy at night to heat up. The heat is stored internally and then given out during the course of the day. If your house is new build then I would expect the storage heaters to be of a size that are adequate for your well insulated house.

    The ‘problem’ with a dual rate tariff (Economy 7) is that the day rate is higher than a comparable single rate tariff. It follows that it makes sense to heat HW and to do washing in the 7 hour off peak (low rate) period.

    Using small electric heaters makes little sense from a comfort/price point of view.

    What type of Tariff are you on - single or dual rate? What are the number and size of your storage heaters?

    I should that one of the issues with a dual rate meter is billing accuracy. Make sure that the night readings are being applied to the night rate tariff on your online account/bills.
    Last edited by Hengus; 28-09-2017 at 2:18 PM.
    • turquoise88
    • By turquoise88 28th Sep 17, 3:18 PM
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    turquoise88
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 3:18 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 17, 3:18 PM
    Thanks for the reply Hengus.


    We have one downstairs in lounge, which is large. We have one in each of the three bedrooms which are smaller.


    So are you basically saying we need to heat hot water and do washing at night time? Is that when the lower rate is?


    I have no idea - a dual rate? When it asks for meter readings I have to input two readings, a 'Low' one and a 'Normal' one.


    "Make sure that the night readings are being applied to the night rate tariff on your online account/bills."
    Sorry - I don't know what this means!


    Again, sorry for being so clueless. I'm trying to get my head around it.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 28th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
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    Hengus
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 17, 4:44 PM
    You are not being clueless. You are on an Economy 7 Tariff which has dual rates. From midnight until 7am you should be on the Night or Low tariff rate. From 7am until midnight you should be on the Day or High Tariff rate. The storage heaters should be charged from midnight until 7 am. You will have a settings knob on each of the storage heaters to set an amount of heating charge. There will also be a Day boost (at the higher Day rate). Details in the storage heater user manual. Your hot water cylinder will have the ability to heat overnight (with a Day boost).

    The key to efficiency (low cost) is making as much use as you can of the low (Night) rate. I appreciate with a young child that this isn’t always easy.

    When your account was set up, your bills/online account will show High and Low charges. You just need to check that EDF is allocating the two meter readings properly. You will use considerably more kWhs overnight so it is important to check that this usage is being billed at the Low rate.

    I hope that this makes sense. The problem with using small heaters is that these will be billed at the Day rate. If they are on for long periods of time, the charges soon build up.

    Edit:

    To get a meaningful tariff best comparison, you need 2 pieces of information: your total annual projected in consumption in kWhs/year and your Day/Night split ( the average is 55% Night). I have just made up some figures but this is what I got by the way of a result:

    SCOTTISH POWER

    Tariff Type Fixed Fixed
    Payment Method Monthly Fixed Direct Debit Monthly Fixed Direct Debit
    Unit Rate 1 Day: 13.031 pence per kWh
    Night: 6.873 pence per kWh

    Note the difference in cost per kWh for Day and Night. This is why you need to use as much electricity as you can by Night. If you have no intention of using the storage heaters, you would be better with a standard fixed tariff. I pay about 11p per kWh.
    Last edited by Hengus; 28-09-2017 at 5:03 PM.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 28th Sep 17, 8:37 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
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    footyguy
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:37 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Sep 17, 8:37 PM
    For context, I live in a small three bed semi with husband and young daughter.


    We live in a new build estate with Economy 7 night storage heaters. We quickly discovered that the output of heat from them is rubbish, so have stopped using them. We are both out every weekday and home evenings and weekends.


    Instead, we use two small electric heaters (one upstairs and one down) in the evenings. We use washing machine and tumble dryer for maybe 2-3 loads per week, but are trying to cut down. We have an immersion heater for hot water, which is on every other night for baths.


    We are currently on Blue+ Price Promise 2018 and paying £113.00 per month, which seems extortionate.


    I've received some advice from friends, who have said I will always pay loads if I'm not on a "dual rate tariff" and not using storage heaters correctly. At the risk of sounding special, I have no idea what this means. I've tried to speak to EDF to ask for advice about which tariff would be best, but I just keep getting directed to the online tariff selector, which doesn't help me.


    Could someone please offer me a dummies guide and tell me if and where I'm going wrong? Thank you!



    Originally posted by turquoise88
    So, if I undewrstand you correctly, you have night storage heaters that use low priced electricity (perhaps 50-70% chaeper), but you don't use them.

    Instead you elect to use alternative electric heaters that presumably use full priced electricity.

    And as a result, you find your electricity bills seems extortionate



    Good luck!
    • turquoise88
    • By turquoise88 28th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
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    turquoise88
    • #6
    • 28th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    Thanks again, Hengus.

    I've just had a look at a previous bill and it says

    Day 3393kWh @ 15.01p
    Night 278kWh @ 6.32p

    Understand what you mean about the drastic difference in day and night rates, but are the kWh readings the correct way around?

    Thanks again for your help.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 29th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
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    Hengus
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
    Thanks again, Hengus.

    I've just had a look at a previous bill and it says

    Day 3393kWh @ 15.01p
    Night 278kWh @ 6.32p

    Understand what you mean about the drastic difference in day and night rates, but are the kWh readings the correct way around?

    Thanks again for your help.
    Originally posted by turquoise88
    Possibly, if you have been using heaters; heating hot water etc during the day. Look at your last bill - online or on paper - and check the last readings against those shown on the meter. I assume that you have been providing your supplier with regular (actual) meter readings as they only have to read your meter once a year? I provide my suppliers with meter readings at least once a month to get accurate bills.

    Looking at your unit cost, I hope that you can see that it is important that you use the storage heaters and heat hot water at night. Your hot water cylinder has a built in thermostat so once it heats up to the required temperature, it will not keep on heating for 7 hours.

    Check the user manual for your storage heaters. Most have an input settings dial from, say, 0 to 6. The higher the setting, the greater the heat that will be stored (at greater cost to you obviously). As the weather gets colder then you will have to turn the setting up. It is cheaper to 'overcharge' the storage heaters than undercharge as the latter ends up with people switching on Day Boost which is charged at your 15.01p rate. Get a timer for your washing machine (if it hasn't got one built in) and run it from 6 to 7am.

    Think of it like this. For every 15p that you spend on electricity, you get 1kWh in the day and 2 1/2kWhs at night.

    Finally, things to do/check:

    1. Read the storage heater manual and set the input control to, say, 3 and see how you get on.

    2. Check the airing cupboard and make sure that the cylinder is set to HW heating overnight and not day.

    3. Check your bill/online account to make sure that your Day and Night usage are being allocated to the bill properly. If not, take a photo of your meter and send the details in to EDF.

    4. Monitor your consumption and make sure that you provide the supplier with readings at least once a month.

    5. And finally, and this shouldn't be a problem with a new build, you need to check that the Night window is correct. During the day, with a kettle on, the Day reading should increase. After midnight (or before 7 am) the Night reading should increase.

    A new build house with good installation should be warm and cost efficient provided you use the system as it was designed to be used. Best of luck: life is constant learning curve.
    • Bark01
    • By Bark01 29th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • 770 Posts
    • 244 Thanks
    Bark01
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    FYI - Look at your last bill, the last section is an FAQ section. In it there will be a section on the time patterns for your particular meter. It will tell you what times your peak and off peak rates should be charged.

    Note- this is what times you should be charged, it doesn't mean your meter is actually working to those times, you'd need to check that yourself. (See point 5 on the post above)

    Also look at the top right of your bill. There will be 'Could you pay less' section. If this shows a saving and mentions something along the lines of 'you may need to change meter to see these savings', then EDF can swap you over to pseudo standard tariff. This will enable you to access a standard tariff with a single price 24/7, without having your meter changed. The single 24/7 rate will be in between your current day and night rates (but closer to the day rate). This is known as totalising. If you are only using 7% of your consumption at the off peak rate then I'd be shocked if this wasn't cheaper for you. Average off peak consumption is 42%.




    Good luck!
    Last edited by Bark01; 29-09-2017 at 3:07 PM.
    • turquoise88
    • By turquoise88 1st Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    turquoise88
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 17, 9:27 PM
    Thank you Bark and Hengus for your help, once again.


    Continuing on this learning curve, can I just clarify:


    5. And finally, and this shouldn't be a problem with a new build, you need to check that the Night window is correct. During the day, with a kettle on, the Day reading should increase. After midnight (or before 7 am) the Night reading should increase.

    How do I check the night window (which I'm guessing is the 12am - 7am off peak you were talking about) is correct?!
    • macman
    • By macman 2nd Oct 17, 10:27 AM
    • 41,423 Posts
    • 17,045 Thanks
    macman
    By making a cup of tea at 12.01?
    If the NSH heating is on, you will normally hear it click on at the changeover time.
    Since the timers don't adjust for BST, you may find that the changeover times are 1am and 8am, at least until the clocks go back. Are you teleswitched or using a clockwork timer? If the latter, these are frequently hours adrift.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 2nd Oct 17, 11:18 AM
    • 3,176 Posts
    • 1,896 Thanks
    matelodave
    Thanks again, Hengus.

    I've just had a look at a previous bill and it says

    Day 3393kWh @ 15.01p
    Night 278kWh @ 6.32p

    Understand what you mean about the drastic difference in day and night rates, but are the kWh readings the correct way around?

    Thanks again for your help.
    Originally posted by turquoise88
    looking at the costs above you've paid = £509.29 (day) plus £17.57 (night) so you aren't getting any benefit from your E7 tariff.

    Either you should try a lot harder to use most of your leccy between midnight and 7 am or get onto a cheaper single rate tariff, where you'd pay around 12p a kwh for all of it ( around £440) saving £86

    are you sure that you have only used 278kwh on the night rate.

    You should start reading your meters yourself a bit more often, try once a week for a month or two and see what happens when you try to use more energy at the off-peak times. Only heat your hot water overnight, not in the evenings.

    Try using the storage heaters the way they are meant to be used. (you probably dont need them on in the bedrooms at all) and if possible set the washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher to run overnight during the off-peak times.

    Dont waste hot water by letting it run down the sink and take fewer baths or showers or spend less time in the shower/ have shallower baths.

    Turn stuff off at the wall when it's not being used - every watt thats on continuously costs over a pound a year, not a lot but it can soon add up.

    Start monitoring your consumption yourself and you'll see where you can adjust your consumption and make savings. You now understand how much a kwh costs at night or during the day, so you can do your own sums.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
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