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  • FIRST POST
    • truth-hurts4488
    • By truth-hurts4488 27th Sep 17, 1:25 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    truth-hurts4488
    landlord will not pay my deposit
    • #1
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:25 AM
    landlord will not pay my deposit 27th Sep 17 at 1:25 AM
    hi there fellow forum folk,

    any advice here would be much appreciated.

    on august 1st i moved house to rent from an agency, but prior to this i rented from a private landlord.
    he said before i moved i could have my deposit, he then text me to confirm he will transfer it but never did, he then went on a 4week holiday and claimed he could not transfer on his app abroad, from here he just plan ignored me.
    i recently posted him a letter before court action, this got his attention and now he has replied and told me that i didnt move out until the 10th of august and owe 2weeks rent and owed him money for two months i payed him less than the full rent.
    i moved in april 2016 so didnt have need for my heaters once the winter came i duscovered that they did not work.
    secondly in november when the bad weather started the walls became damp and extremely mouldy, there was mould in most rooms but worse was in the kitchen and hallway, food in cupboards were affected and other things.
    also the two flats became a target for rats infesting the garden area they left feaces in the kitchen and destroyed a fridge, food and clothes.
    after numerous attempts to get him to come look, he brought two tiny poison traps, came without notice when i was at work, or just didnt nothing to address the issues.
    at this point i was advised i coukd kegalky withhold my full rent until he made fixes to make the property suitable for humans.
    i would not hold it all so i paid him 175 less, i told him and he said ok, thrn ge came around and saw the damage, he did not mention any rent he could see it wasnt good.
    after a month i tokd him i was moving and was out by the 31st but had a sofa in there until tge 4th and was cleaning the flat.
    i had told him on the 2nd id be completely out on the 4th, he said ok, i did not here anything off him after and messaged him on the 10th august to say i still have your keys dont you want them? he wasnt available to get them for a week, and advised me to give them to the tenant below and to text my bank details so he could transfer my deposit, he went quiet and i had to keep texting him until he said abroad it wasnt possible, so when hes back he will do it.
    he ignored me after this until today after i posted the letter before court action, with his claims.

    ive been advised im in the right and until today he never said a thing about me owing him money, even though he agreed to the rent and told me he was going to pay me the deposit on two occassions.

    what do you guys think?
    thanks
    kp
Page 1
    • truth-hurts4488
    • By truth-hurts4488 27th Sep 17, 1:30 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    truth-hurts4488
    • #2
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:30 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:30 AM
    also in the contract it said he would put the deposit in an authorised deposit protection scheme, which he did not do.
    • Car1980
    • By Car1980 27th Sep 17, 3:53 AM
    • 234 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    Car1980
    • #3
    • 27th Sep 17, 3:53 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Sep 17, 3:53 AM
    Forget any of the issues - they're irrelevant.

    Double check the deposit hasn't been put in any of the schemes: https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit

    If not, I would write him another letter headed WITHOUT PREJUDICE that you require full payment within 7 days or you will make a court claim for three times the amount as per the Localism Act 2011.

    If he doesn't comply you can indeed make a claim for 3x what he owes you.
    • Nicki
    • By Nicki 27th Sep 17, 6:44 AM
    • 7,569 Posts
    • 26,547 Thanks
    Nicki
    • #4
    • 27th Sep 17, 6:44 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Sep 17, 6:44 AM
    Don't head the letter without prejudice. That's what you put. On a letter when you are agreeing it won't be relied on in court. What's being suggested here is a letter before action and those are never without prejudice
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 27th Sep 17, 7:05 AM
    • 11,202 Posts
    • 15,655 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #5
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:05 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Sep 17, 7:05 AM
    Read G_M's Deposits: payment, protection and return.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 27th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    • 5,587 Posts
    • 4,991 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #6
    • 27th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    • #6
    • 27th Sep 17, 9:16 AM
    hi there fellow forum folk,

    any advice here would be much appreciated.

    on august 1st i moved house to rent from an agency, but prior to this i rented from a private landlord.
    he said before i moved i could have my deposit, he then text me to confirm he will transfer it but never did, he then went on a 4week holiday and claimed he could not transfer on his app abroad, from here he just plan ignored me.
    i recently posted him a letter before court action, this got his attention and now he has replied and told me that i didnt move out until the 10th of august and owe 2weeks rent and owed him money for two months i payed him less than the full rent.
    i moved in april 2016 so didnt have need for my heaters once the winter came i duscovered that they did not work.
    secondly in november when the bad weather started the walls became damp and extremely mouldy, there was mould in most rooms but worse was in the kitchen and hallway, food in cupboards were affected and other things.
    also the two flats became a target for rats infesting the garden area they left feaces in the kitchen and destroyed a fridge, food and clothes.
    after numerous attempts to get him to come look, he brought two tiny poison traps, came without notice when i was at work, or just didnt nothing to address the issues.
    at this point i was advised i coukd kegalky withhold my full rent until he made fixes to make the property suitable for humans.
    i would not hold it all so i paid him 175 less, i told him and he said ok, thrn ge came around and saw the damage, he did not mention any rent he could see it wasnt good.
    after a month i tokd him i was moving and was out by the 31st but had a sofa in there until tge 4th and was cleaning the flat.
    i had told him on the 2nd id be completely out on the 4th, he said ok, i did not here anything off him after and messaged him on the 10th august to say i still have your keys dont you want them? he wasnt available to get them for a week, and advised me to give them to the tenant below and to text my bank details so he could transfer my deposit, he went quiet and i had to keep texting him until he said abroad it wasnt possible, so when hes back he will do it.
    he ignored me after this until today after i posted the letter before court action, with his claims.

    ive been advised im in the right and until today he never said a thing about me owing him money, even though he agreed to the rent and told me he was going to pay me the deposit on two occassions.

    what do you guys think?
    thanks
    kp
    Originally posted by truth-hurts4488
    your wall of text is irrelevant except for the fact you say you have already sent a letter before action which has prompted the ex Landlord to try and reduce his financial liablity by claiming "costs"

    you disagree with some of those costs so you and the LL are at an impasse

    SO GO TO COURT and let the court decide who has the evidence to support their case

    at the same time sue the LL for failing to protect your deposit. The failure is a matter of fact which the LL cannot deny and thus you will automatically be awarded a payment of at least the value of the deposit (and potentially up to 3 times its value) as that is rigid, unavoidable, law
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 27th Sep 17, 9:42 AM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,072 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #7
    • 27th Sep 17, 9:42 AM
    • #7
    • 27th Sep 17, 9:42 AM
    your wall of text is irrelevant except for the fact you say you have already sent a letter before action which has prompted the ex Landlord to try and reduce his financial liablity by claiming "costs"

    you disagree with some of those costs so you and the LL are at an impasse

    SO GO TO COURT and let the court decide who has the evidence to support their case

    at the same time sue the LL for failing to protect your deposit. The failure is a matter of fact which the LL cannot deny and thus you will automatically be awarded a payment of at least the value of the deposit (and potentially up to 3 times its value) as that is rigid, unavoidable, law
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    Just want to clarify, this should be two claims, as it avoids confusion.
    • Car1980
    • By Car1980 27th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
    • 234 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    Car1980
    • #8
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
    Don't head the letter without prejudice. That's what you put. On a letter when you are agreeing it won't be relied on in court. What's being suggested here is a letter before action and those are never without prejudice
    Originally posted by Nicki
    No, because are offering to settle for £1000 (for example), but will sue for £3000. You do not want the landlord producing a letter to the court showing you'd be happy with £1000.
    • aneary
    • By aneary 27th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • 817 Posts
    • 704 Thanks
    aneary
    • #9
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    get the sample letter of the shelter website that will cover you.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 27th Sep 17, 2:09 PM
    • 16,148 Posts
    • 40,063 Thanks
    FBaby
    This is going to be a messy one! On one hand, he didn't follow the rules as a LL and as such, you can claim 3 times you rent for failing to protect your deposit.

    On the other hand, it would seem that you failed to follow the rules too in that you should have given notice you were going in writing. Assuming you were not on a fixed term and you were entitled to only give one month notice, it needed to fall in line with rental payment date. You left a sofa and kept the keys, that means you had not vacated the premises, and as such, he could indeed charge you for another month.

    Add to this that he might want to claim for damage to the property and that's more money he could be entitled.

    You're likely to still come out of it better than him, but then again, after court fees, who knows.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 27th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 1,192 Thanks
    parkrunner
    How much is the deposit and how much does the missed rent come to?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 27th Sep 17, 4:11 PM
    • 1,315 Posts
    • 1,072 Thanks
    Comms69
    Or even 2 months, as the LL can charge double rent if the property isn't vacated.
    Originally posted by Slithery
    This is going to be a messy one! On one hand, he didn't follow the rules as a LL and as such, you can claim 3 times you rent for failing to protect your deposit.

    On the other hand, it would seem that you failed to follow the rules too in that you should have given notice you were going in writing. Assuming you were not on a fixed term and you were entitled to only give one month notice, it needed to fall in line with rental payment date. You left a sofa and kept the keys, that means you had not vacated the premises, and as such, he could indeed charge you for another month.

    Add to this that he might want to claim for damage to the property and that's more money he could be entitled.

    You're likely to still come out of it better than him, but then again, after court fees, who knows.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Both valid points (ish)


    return of keys isn't a requirement of ending a tenancy, so we can simply skip that.


    The sofa is interesting, and I think a judge could rule either way or it. It's a single item, thought rather large granted.


    On a basic level, no court is going to agree with the LL if the tenant left a light bulb; a plate; a saucepan. What about a chair? TV stand? At some point they will draw a limit, but I don't know what that limit is


    I think the best case scenario tenant wise is the LL is entitled to charge some storage / moving fees.


    Worse case I agree a judge decides it's not ended and double rent.
    • truth-hurts4488
    • By truth-hurts4488 27th Sep 17, 6:22 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    truth-hurts4488
    hi guys thanks for the replies, all very useful with good information.

    sorry about the wall of text, i mean it as two separate cases, i have contacted the local council and EHO regarding the condition of the property.

    just to clarify i gave a months notice to the landlord during a face to face meeting at the property, he said to let him know as soon as im gone, i also notified him a week before and another time 2 days before. my tenancy ended on the 28th (i moved on the 31st, but the sofa stayed until the 4th.)
    in this message i asked him to collect the keys (he only has the 1 set) and he replied the he could not until the following Tuesday.
    i did not hear from him again until i messaged him on the 10th, he replied he was on holiday for 4 weeks and instructed me to pass them to the other tenant downstairs, surely i cannot be accused of still being a tenant because he did not care to come collect them.

    I in no way damaged the property, its all unavoidable damage from wear and tear, and those rats.
    I have read that he had 30 days to come and inspect the property for damages after this i am not liable, he didn't even do an itinerary before the move in.

    it seems as though the best option is take my chances in court, win or lose, it will be worth it.
    Last edited by truth-hurts4488; 27-09-2017 at 6:26 PM. Reason: typo
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 2nd Oct 17, 6:22 PM
    • 1,010 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    saajan_12
    hi guys thanks for the replies, all very useful with good information.

    sorry about the wall of text, i mean it as two separate cases, i have contacted the local council and EHO regarding the condition of the property.- any claims re the condition of the property should have been dealt with while you were in occupation. They no longer affect you so no recourse now.


    just to clarify i gave a months notice to the landlord during a face to face meeting at the property, - was this in writing, in line with tenancy periods? he said to let him know as soon as im gone, i also notified him a week before and another time 2 days before. my tenancy ended on the 28th - if you mean your notice expired on 28th then you had to be out BY 28th. (i moved on the 31st, but the sofa stayed until the 4th.) - The sofa is debatable as it wasn't abandoned but a large item you retrieved and you also accessed the property until 4th Sept to clean, so you occupied until then. However regardless, you overstayed your notice until 31st Aug atleast so are liable for double rent for the full tenancy period 29 Aug - 28 Sept.
    in this message i asked him to collect the keys (he only has the 1 set) and he replied the he could not until the following Tuesday.
    i did not hear from him again until i messaged him on the 10th, he replied he was on holiday for 4 weeks and instructed me to pass them to the other tenant downstairs, surely i cannot be accused of still being a tenant because he did not care to come collect them.- no, but you can be for overstaying your notice until 31st Aug / 4th Sept.

    I in no way damaged the property, its all unavoidable damage from wear and tear, and those rats. - okay
    I have read that he had 30 days to come and inspect the property for damages after this i am not liable, - no,
    doesn't that sound ridiculous to you? You are still liable for legitimate damages. A delay in providing the deductions or photos taken a long time after the end of the tenancy may raise questions over whether the LL can prove the state of the property when you left, but there could be ways to provide sufficient evidence.
    he didn't even do an itinerary inventory? before the move in.- how do you know?
    A check in inventory / report signed by the tenant is much stronger evidence for the LL but not necessarily essential.
    He may have performed an inventory without you or have dated photos or receipts showing newly decorated / purchased items.


    it seems as though the best option is take my chances in court, win or lose, it will be worth it.
    Originally posted by truth-hurts4488
    Please quote the exact dates of your tenancy periods and quote your notice. Calculate what you expect to gain by pursuing..
    - You owe 2x months rent
    - You owe some damages?
    - LL owes return of deposit
    - LL pays penalty 1-3x deposit

    sounds like a close one to me, not worth your time in preparing evidence etc.. I'd suggest trying to settle for return of the deposit less reasonable deductions if LL can provide evidence.
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