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    • dandy-candy
    • By dandy-candy 26th Sep 17, 10:49 PM
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    dandy-candy
    Anyone here vegan?
    • #1
    • 26th Sep 17, 10:49 PM
    Anyone here vegan? 26th Sep 17 at 10:49 PM
    I've been vegetarian before, the longest was for a year. I'm planning on starting again but was wondering how hard it is to go vegan? It seems a bit extreme on paper, but I am uncomfortable about animal welfare in this country. I only eat organic eggs and dairy already, but I still don't know if there welfare is much better.
Page 3
    • Doom_and_Gloom
    • By Doom_and_Gloom 12th Oct 17, 5:39 PM
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    Doom_and_Gloom
    It wont make a difference to animal welfare. One person is not going to change a thing.
    Originally posted by NineDeuce
    I agree with Izadora.

    Thing is if people once thought the same thing about abolishing slavery, giving woman the vote, black people being able to vote, allowing woman to own land etc. The first person, then group were laughed at, people said they wouldn't make a difference etc. That wasn't true though. One person is all you need to start a domino effect.
    28 year old vegan woman. My OH is a lovely omni guy
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 12th Oct 17, 5:55 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    It wont make a difference to animal welfare. One person is not going to change a thing.
    Originally posted by NineDeuce
    Ever heard of the "hundredth monkey" effect.
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • Doom_and_Gloom
    • By Doom_and_Gloom 12th Oct 17, 6:01 PM
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    Doom_and_Gloom
    Ah well, sadly this is the end of my vegan lifestyle for the time being. Going into hospital for hip replacement soon, so to check about best thing to do I consulted a nutritional therapist.

    She told me that, post op, it's no time to be vegan, as in order to recuperate as fast as possible, my body will need extra proteins and it would be very complicated to get enough (without overdosing on carbs and putting on weight) while in hospital and on my return home when I won't be able to shop and cook for myself for a while.

    I feel bad in a way but also need to balance it all with the amount of stress that it would create me to stick to my ethical position. I am going to forgive myself for the time being and stick to mostly vegetarian (with the odd tin of mackerel thrown in) for simplicity, until I'm back on my feet and good to go (vegan, again, maybe).
    While I appreciate you don't want black lash and this isn't what it is, I don't understand why anyone would think that being vegan while recovering from an operation would mean lack of nutrition.
    Athletes are often vegan while training and they need nutritional meals which include lots of protein for repairing muscles. If many athletes are vegan on season because that means they are at their best surely vegan for operation recovery is best?
    Quinoa, tofu, beans etc for protein. Also carbs are not the enemy when it comes to weight gain. So many people get this wrong. Just eat the whole grain versions as they are best or you.
    Batch cook and have meals ready in the freezer. So much better for you and cheap to. A slow cooker and/or rice/multi cooker. Buy ready prepared or frozen vegetables etc if needed.

    After all veganism is quoted as being healthy for all stages of life, including pregnancy and while breast feeding which are taxing on the body.
    There isn't a chance that any doctor would ever get me to stop being vegan and I have a disability that may one day mean operation to live if it gets that bad.
    Last edited by Doom_and_Gloom; 12-10-2017 at 6:20 PM. Reason: typo; on phone
    28 year old vegan woman. My OH is a lovely omni guy
    • BearPearSun
    • By BearPearSun 12th Oct 17, 6:15 PM
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    BearPearSun
    Caterina try talking to a dietitian rather than a nutritionist. If you're in the UK in an NHS hospital there should be one that you can speak to.

    A carefully planned vegan diet is definitely an option for an appropriate pre and post surgery diet. It does of course depend on your home situation as to whether you/others can make the food.
    • Caterina
    • By Caterina 14th Oct 17, 8:48 AM
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    Caterina
    Thank you Doom_And_Gloom and BearPearSun, I don't take it as backlash at all. I have accepted that for the time being I'm going to make life as easy as I can (the op is not my only health issue) and that this is only a phase.

    'Re talking to a dietician, the NHS is still in the prehistory when it comes to nutrition, they still advocate the outdated food pyramid which is now considered by many, doctors included, to put too much emphasis on low fat and excess carbs.

    I have done a lot of research on carbs and also know how my body reacts (I've lived in it for 60 years). I don't consider carbs the enemy, I eat a lot of carbs in plant form and now small portions of whole grains.

    Whenever there's a vegan option I'll always go for it but not if it's pasta or stodge. I'm just less strict and will be so when in hospital.

    Had the pre med and it looks like it might be a few weeks before the op so I'm still eating mostly plant based. I don't say vegan because it's a lifestyle and I'm still very far from being there.
    Finally I'm an OAP and can travel free (in London at least!).
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 28th Oct 17, 8:15 AM
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    Spendless
    You've only got to look at the change in availability of vegetarian and vegan food over the last few years to see that people can make a difference.
    Originally posted by Izadora
    Definitely. You've only got to eat out abroad to know this country has a wider selection available than others, even if Vegan seems to be hit and miss.

    I did a thread on the holiday board when we returned from Orlando this year asking about where to go next year to suit Vegetarian daughter's diet. I'd found eating out with her this year very difficult, something I wasn't expecting. The worst example I have is when she ordered an Egg Mcmuffin from an all day breakfast menu at McDs (yes, I know but teens and free wifi...) sat at the table, opened it up and discovered it had a slice of ham on it!
    • BearPearSun
    • By BearPearSun 28th Oct 17, 9:49 AM
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    BearPearSun
    The worst example I have is when she ordered an Egg Mcmuffin from an all day breakfast menu at McDs (yes, I know but teens and free wifi...) sat at the table, opened it up and discovered it had a slice of ham on it!
    Originally posted by Spendless
    Oh dear! I hope that she didn't go hungry, if it were me I would have just picked off the bits that I didn't want and carried on!

    Out of interest, what were the places that were recommended to you? Our local Chinese supermarket is great for vegan alternatives but I've been told that it would be harder to find these products in china!
    32 year old woman with a husband and 3 cats...

    November 2017: -£26423
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 28th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Definitely. You've only got to eat out abroad to know this country has a wider selection available than others, even if Vegan seems to be hit and miss.

    I did a thread on the holiday board when we returned from Orlando this year asking about where to go next year to suit Vegetarian daughter's diet. I'd found eating out with her this year very difficult, something I wasn't expecting. The worst example I have is when she ordered an Egg Mcmuffin from an all day breakfast menu at McDs (yes, I know but teens and free wifi...) sat at the table, opened it up and discovered it had a slice of ham on it!
    Originally posted by Spendless
    I've had an equivalent situation pretty recently when eating lunch out here - I fancied a "special" and saw several up on the board and all the others were obviously meat and therefore took the view that the one that wasnt obviously meat must be a solitary little vegetarian thing one could choose. So I chose it - and part way through realised it had meat in it.

    I gave the cafe/restaurant rather a strongly-worded comment about not even as much as offering one vegetarian "specials" option and that that was the least they could do for customers.

    Yep...I didnt ask. Why would I? - as meat-eaters arent made to "ask" if something is suitable for them - as it automatically is. Vegetarians (and vegans) should have the same courtesy extended to us - ie of not having to "ask" (shades of "Beg your pardon...ever so 'umbly Gov - but would you be ever so kind and do something suitable for me. I know you don't want to and it will be ever so inconvenient in your opinion". Yeh...right...
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 28-10-2017 at 9:55 AM.
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • Pauper1
    • By Pauper1 28th Oct 17, 10:19 AM
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    Pauper1
    Yay! I found the vegans!

    As a family (DH, 1yo DS and me), we've been vegan since January. DH has slip ups when he works abroad because he often has to go France for meetings, where generally they don't understand what he can't have, so gets given cheese sandwiches...

    People often say that my DS is a good advert for veganism, because he looks so "healthy" (read, chunky) but I like battling those stereotypes. I'm also 3 months pregnant, which I'm sure people have an opinion about with me staying vegan. My midwife is perfectly happy though, and tbh even if she wasn't it is tough!
    DMP start 1st May 2014 - £22,850 £39,349.41 Original DFD from Stepchange 6th Sept 2039... Aiming for 1st Nov 2026
    Priorities changed, sold our house, going through the settlement process and hope to be debt free by Christmas 2017
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 28th Oct 17, 10:19 AM
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    Mojisola
    Yep...I didnt ask. Why would I? - as meat-eaters arent made to "ask" if something is suitable for them - as it automatically is. Vegetarians (and vegans) should have the same courtesy extended to us - ie of not having to "ask" (shades of "Beg your pardon...ever so 'umbly Gov - but would you be ever so kind and do something suitable for me. I know you don't want to and it will be ever so inconvenient in your opinion". Yeh...right...
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Bit of an over-reaction.

    Most people who have to/want to avoid certain foodstuffs get used to asking about what's in their food without making a drama out of it.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 28th Oct 17, 5:29 PM
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    Spendless
    Oh dear! I hope that she didn't go hungry, if it were me I would have just picked off the bits that I didn't want and carried on!

    Out of interest, what were the places that were recommended to you? Our local Chinese supermarket is great for vegan alternatives but I've been told that it would be harder to find these products in china!
    Originally posted by BearPearSun
    She didn't go hungry, I took it back and was met with a rather abrupt 'So what did you want on it' Ermmm egg like it states and add a slice of cheese if you like Ironically if she'd actually gone to the 2 cafes on either side of the Maccys which I told her I'd be eating at, once I'd sorted her food, she'd have found some veggie options (not sure about Vegan ones!) This was at Clearwater beach.

    She ended up eating Cheese and Tomato pizza at most places as that was the only option for her.

    This is the thread I did below with suggestions from others. I think the largest thing I've taken from that, is to ask at the Independent eating places to make or omit something, as they have more flexibility than chains. I noticed today having breakfast at my local cafe that they had no veggie option for a full breakfast, but if DD had been with us, I could have probably asked for a plate made of various non meat items.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5701042
    • Doom_and_Gloom
    • By Doom_and_Gloom 28th Oct 17, 8:20 PM
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    Doom_and_Gloom
    Yep...I didnt ask. Why would I?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Unless like the pub I went to yesterday and they have v-vegetarian, vg - vegan, gf - gluten free etc on the menu itself or you are in a veggie/vegan only place you are living in a world that the majority is omnivorous so should assume nothing is veggie/vegan unless you ask! How is that not obvious? Places are not obligated by law to have veggie/vegan options. It is, unfortunately, a courtesy. Or more likely they know profits are more if they offer a veggie/vegan option.
    28 year old vegan woman. My OH is a lovely omni guy
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 28th Oct 17, 9:37 PM
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    Spendless
    Unless like the pub I went to yesterday and they have v-vegetarian, vg - vegan, gf - gluten free etc on the menu itself or you are in a veggie/vegan only place you are living in a world that the majority is omnivorous so should assume nothing is veggie/vegan unless you ask! How is that not obvious? Places are not obligated by law to have veggie/vegan options. It is, unfortunately, a courtesy. Or more likely they know profits are more if they offer a veggie/vegan option.
    Originally posted by Doom_and_Gloom
    I'll be honest as I or Mr S do the ordering if eating out on behalf of DD and I pretty much haven't if the description is enough for me to think it's a vegetarian dish. So if it says something like mushroom stroganoff I'd sort of assume this was ok. In chains they do put the listings like you've said, but not in independent places (or at least not around here). If it was a bit more ambiguous like 'special ragu' even if every other offering had meat in it, I would query exactly what was in it.

    I did ask at a chain recently why their breaded mushrooms didn't have a V sign on then, the waitress asked the manager, who explained that though there was no meat in them because they aren't fried in a different fryer to meat products, they don't meet the criteria to be classed as vegetarian from the vegetarian society, hence no v by the sign.

    ETA - I've just read your comment about profits, that made me smile. At McD's here DD sometimes orders what her friend calls the 'burger no burger'. She asks for a cheeseburger cos she likes the salad, sauce etc but asks them to leave the burger out. The price is still the same.
    Last edited by Spendless; 28-10-2017 at 9:40 PM.
    • pelirocco
    • By pelirocco 30th Oct 17, 12:38 AM
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    pelirocco
    Vegan food buying for oneself and sometimes eating out is so much easier now. I became vegetarian around '73 and in those days finding a vegetarian cheese was a challenge! It took me around 10 years to change over to being completely vegan and wish I'd done it sooner. Now any mainstream supermarket will have a vegan margarine, vegan ice-cream and non-dairy milks. The vegan womble is a good source of info on UK products. https://www.veganwomble.co.uk/

    B12 is an issue. Both for carnies and vegans. Animals reared for consumption are given B12 supplements, so that is why meat is a reliable source. Some people talk about getting it from unwashed veggies. Very bad advice - take a supplement. Spirulina is not a good source either.

    Well done for your three days into the new world. Enjoy life with a clean conscience.
    Originally posted by Doody

    nutritional yeast is good for B12 , Omegas can be difficult too
    I do agree taking a supplement covers all bases (make sure its vegan tho )
    Vuja De - the feeling you'll be here later
    • pelirocco
    • By pelirocco 30th Oct 17, 12:44 AM
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    pelirocco
    I've had an equivalent situation pretty recently when eating lunch out here - I fancied a "special" and saw several up on the board and all the others were obviously meat and therefore took the view that the one that wasnt obviously meat must be a solitary little vegetarian thing one could choose. So I chose it - and part way through realised it had meat in it.

    I gave the cafe/restaurant rather a strongly-worded comment about not even as much as offering one vegetarian "specials" option and that that was the least they could do for customers.

    Yep...I didnt ask. Why would I? - as meat-eaters arent made to "ask" if something is suitable for them - as it automatically is. Vegetarians (and vegans) should have the same courtesy extended to us - ie of not having to "ask" (shades of "Beg your pardon...ever so 'umbly Gov - but would you be ever so kind and do something suitable for me. I know you don't want to and it will be ever so inconvenient in your opinion". Yeh...right...
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    This is what gives veggies and vegans a bad

    I always check the menu , theres normally something on there i can eat, even if it means being creative and asking to leave something off or combining bits from menus ...and if its not possible or nothing i fancy i go elsewhere ( just like meat eaters do )
    Vuja De - the feeling you'll be here later
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 30th Oct 17, 7:40 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Well - one interesting statistic I read recently is that 20% of the 18-24 age group are either vegetarian or vegan - so definitely time for places to eat out at to up their game and cater appropriately.

    According to those statistics - then that translates into = out of, say, 10 main choice options at least 2 have to be vegetarian or vegan. Not a lot considering that, if I were running an omnivorous cafe or restaurant I'd be bargaining on around half the choices I made available being vegetarian or vegan in order not to discriminate (after all - lots of omnivores fancy a change sometimes too). Just good business sense..
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • Tiglath
    • By Tiglath 30th Oct 17, 8:46 PM
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    Tiglath
    Reading this thread with interest. I've been pondering the whole issue of food recently - we're going to be keeping rescue chickens in the New Year and I realised the illogic of caring for live ones and buying dead ones to eat. I've taken the plunge and went vegetarian today. Nice to have a thread to chat on
    "Those are synapses, electric impulses in the brain that carry all the messages. Somewhere in all that organic wiring, all those ripples of light, is you — the thing that makes you unique and human." ~ Dr. Jenner, The Walking Dead
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 30th Oct 17, 10:03 PM
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    I've had an equivalent situation pretty recently when eating lunch out here - I fancied a "special" and saw several up on the board and all the others were obviously meat and therefore took the view that the one that wasnt obviously meat must be a solitary little vegetarian thing one could choose. So I chose it - and part way through realised it had meat in it.

    I gave the cafe/restaurant rather a strongly-worded comment about not even as much as offering one vegetarian "specials" option and that that was the least they could do for customers.

    Yep...I didnt ask. Why would I? - as meat-eaters arent made to "ask" if something is suitable for them - as it automatically is. Vegetarians (and vegans) should have the same courtesy extended to us - ie of not having to "ask" (shades of "Beg your pardon...ever so 'umbly Gov - but would you be ever so kind and do something suitable for me. I know you don't want to and it will be ever so inconvenient in your opinion". Yeh...right...
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Not really. Food allergies, ethical/religious choices and dislikes are a thing for omnis as well. Just because somebody chooses to eat meat or fish, that doesn't mean they automatically like/can have a ton and a half of dairy added to everything, especially when the veggie options are always going to consist of milk, cheese and eggs (and often with honey as a selling point).

    I know somebody who stopped having beef and dairy when the badger cull started, as they reasoned that the cull isn't there for the benefit of chicken or sheep farming pressure groups - whilst they are content with their decision to continue to eat meat, they weren't prepared to support the part of the industry that they hold responsible for the cull. Another feels that commercial honey is wrong because of the way the bees are left with sugar water, the killing of unwanted Queens, because concentrating upon their welfare means that the solitary bees, hoverflies and suchlike that actually pollinate the majority of crops and wildflowers are ignored and being able to hire a few hives during peak blossom means that the producers will continue to spray and kill all other potential pollinators - so whilst they again accept the practice of farming animals to eat, they feel that it is unsound ecologically to support commercial hives by eating honey.


    Vegan food, is generally trustworthy (when you can find it - even the supermarkets that have made a big thing about catering for vegans hardly ever stock it in the majority of branches), whereas the Free From ranges, however, can be misleading - a Tesco white sauce that made a big fuss about no milk, no egg, no gluten, etc, turned out to have tiny lumps of reformed 'ham', so small, you couldn't see them through the jar, for example.


    The only way stores and restaurants know that there is a worthwhile level of demand for vegan/completely animal product free food is for people to ask and keep asking - after all, whilst you complained after the fact, from their point of view, they didn't miss out on a sale (even if they refunded it, the original price and order goes onto their figures), and some people will say nothing in your situation - it's only by asking before buying that they realise there's a demand and that they are missing out on potential sales.


    The thing I'd most like to see places hauled up for, though, are the ones where, as Gordon I-Swear-Because-I-Think-It's-Big-And-Clever Ramsey claims, they deliberately put meat/animal products into vegetarian/vegan food. Preferably with massive fines and an instant loss of their Food Hygiene rating on the basis that they obviously cannot follow rules upon cross contamination.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
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