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    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 26th Sep 17, 5:57 PM
    • 24Posts
    • 6Thanks
    MSE Karl
    MSE Poll: Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more?
    • #1
    • 26th Sep 17, 5:57 PM
    MSE Poll: Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more? 26th Sep 17 at 5:57 PM
    Poll started 26 September 2017

    Do you support renationalisation of rail, energy, water and more?

    This week, Labour reaffirmed its commitment to taking back into public ownership a raft of services which in the 1980s were privatised (usually by floating them on the stock market). Those arguing for privatisation often focus on increased efficiency due to competition. Those against often say firms do what’s best for shareholders, not for consumers.


    For EACH service below please vote on your view on whether it should be renationalised.



    Did you vote? Are you surprised at the results so far? Have your say below. To see the results from last time, click here.

    If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

    Thanks!


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    Last edited by MSE Karl; 26-09-2017 at 6:16 PM.
Page 2
    • donny jim
    • By donny jim 27th Sep 17, 2:38 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    donny jim
    I suspect that some of your poll results will be heavily dependent upon the voter's location as well as how internet savvy they are (e.g. to switch energy supplier). I can remember the good (sic) old days of overpaid nationalised industry employees who would not know what a proper days job was and who would hold the country to ransom at a whim! Even today we have some 'nationalised' areas where people keep bleating about their pay forgetting how good their pensions are compared to the vast number of people in the private industries. However, I feel that there is a role for government either as share holder or by imposing legal requirements (with heavy fines for non compliance) in all essential services.
    Originally posted by 9411john
    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but those days are long gone. Mrs Thatcher saw to that. But that is why I don't believe in total nationalisation or total privatisation, a mix of the two hopefully keeps everyone honest. Just as I do not think public sector bosses should be on more than 100k a year. That includes M.P.s with the possible exception of the P.M.
    • indesisiv
    • By indesisiv 27th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • 4,706 Posts
    • 15,746 Thanks
    indesisiv
    I get the water as I am not sure what you can gain from it being held privately (Its not like you can switch providers)
    I don't understand why anyone would want to renationalise directory enquiries, or the post office. Surely they are both sort of dying breeds that if back would just end up costing money.
    Leave the DE to die off as the internet takes over. Seriously how many people can afford to use those services anyway!

    Phones, you guys with BT don't know what a monopoly is. At least you can change different broadband providers to get a better deal. Some of us that don't have BT lines can't do that.
    “Time is intended to be spent, not saved” - Alfred Wainwright
    • NaughtiusMaximus
    • By NaughtiusMaximus 27th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    • 318 Posts
    • 756 Thanks
    NaughtiusMaximus
    I remember the time before rail privitisation. The trains were always filthy both inside and out and the timekeeping was just awful. As there were no profits no one had any interest in improving the service.
    Originally posted by Gillian Brown
    That's odd because I remember them as clean and reliable. Fares were also a LOT cheaper even after taking into account inflation and the rail industry received a smaller government subsidy back then too.

    The unions were supreme so were always on strike.
    Originally posted by Gillian Brown
    Of course there are never any rail strikes now

    Rose tinted spectacles. Yes it was a world class diesel locomotive, but it was only needed because, unlike most of Western Europe, the state owned BR had failed to invest in the electrification of its network.
    Originally posted by Eric_the_half_a_bee
    BR invested in electrification to a far greater degree than the the privatised rail industry has.
    Last edited by NaughtiusMaximus; 27-09-2017 at 8:55 PM.
    • fewgroats
    • By fewgroats 27th Sep 17, 6:10 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    fewgroats
    When there was GWR and London & Chatham and so on weren't the railways private?
    • bigheadxx
    • By bigheadxx 27th Sep 17, 6:17 PM
    • 2,982 Posts
    • 2,858 Thanks
    bigheadxx
    Aviation scores over 50% across all the age groups for remaining in private ownership. Could this be that for most people, there is no harking back to a golden age of state ownership, because most people have little experience or knowledge of mass air travel under government ownership? Mass air travel is a reality for most people, certainly wasn't during the era of state ownership, nor during the privatisation era of the 1980's.

    We don't know what state the privatised industries would be in had they remained under state ownership but the money raised from privatisation is dwarfed by the money that has been invested since then and the profits that those companies have made, some of which is used to fund many of our pension funds.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 27th Sep 17, 10:57 PM
    • 4,617 Posts
    • 7,298 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Just as I do not think public sector bosses should be on more than 100k a year.
    Originally posted by donny jim
    Let me guess, you'd still expect a decent level of performance from that for this wage though right?

    Aviation scores over 50% across all the age groups for remaining in private ownership. Could this be that for most people, there is no harking back to a golden age of state ownership, because most people have little experience or knowledge of mass air travel under government ownership? Mass air travel is a reality for most people, certainly wasn't during the era of state ownership, nor during the privatisation era of the 1980's.
    Originally posted by bigheadxx
    I was one of those who voted against placing aviation into public ownership. Reason being is that I believe all essential industries/services should offer a state run option and quite simply I don't consider air travel as essential.
    • Wild_Rover
    • By Wild_Rover 28th Sep 17, 12:05 AM
    • 4,949 Posts
    • 15,553 Thanks
    Wild_Rover
    Too many memories of the 1970s. Anyone who believes that the huge state controlled industries were run for the benefit of the public is, IMO, delusional. They were, and would be again if renationalised, run for the benefit of the employees/ unions.

    Added to that, state companies become answerable to ministers/Parliament. There is enough botal tollocks talked about in parliament without nonsense like 'can the Minister explain why the post box opposite Boots on Ecclefechan High Street was out of action for three weeks last month?'

    Better regulation, by all means, but renationalisation? Shudder!

    Night night!

    WR
    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire
    Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own? RG. Ingersol
    I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously. D Adams
    • Lilibeticus
    • By Lilibeticus 28th Sep 17, 1:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lilibeticus
    Same work-shy people!
    It's not so much privatisation or renationalisation, it's that the same people are often kept on with the same work-shy habits! Saw it myself with council-run services which became privatised. Those easy-going, tea-drinking habits remained and things were unchanged. By the same token, being privatised to being state-run just gives ample cause for laziness. How about pride in the job no matter what?
    Last edited by Lilibeticus; 28-09-2017 at 1:43 PM.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 29th Sep 17, 1:34 PM
    • 813 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    badmemory
    I know it may well no longer be the case, but 25 years ago we were totally dependent on BT for our security services. This was sold off when it was still the main means of contact. "We" no longer own power companies etc. What happens when we seriously p*** off a foreign power? No problem - they just pull the switch.

    Anyone doubting their power should look at the foreign ownership of Greece.
    • lakesider52
    • By lakesider52 5th Oct 17, 9:42 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    lakesider52
    Short Memories
    I am frankly surprised at the level of support across all age groups for renationalisation of the railways and can only put this down to (a) voting on political rather than common sense grounds, (b) younger people who have never experienced Britain's nationalised rail system and (c) older people who have forgotten just how bad it really was. Never forget that when nationalised, BR used the tactic of pricing people off the railways to reduce crowding but more importantly, we have all seen how irresponsible the rail unions have become lately taking out their grievances with management on the customers and nationalisation will simply hand them the opportunity to bring the entire rail system to a standstill which is clearly their desire.
    • DiscountofMonteCristo
    • By DiscountofMonteCristo 6th Oct 17, 3:13 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    DiscountofMonteCristo
    I'm left-wing and in favour of nationalisation as an alternative to shareholder profiteering as I don't see why people who have not shared in the work should share in the benefits, but re-nationalised industries should work differently to how they did before. I think workers should always be paid fairly and given decent working conditions etc., but what we need to see more of is consumer power. These industries exist because of the needs and wants of consumers, who are the one group who don't have any direct say in how they are run. Instead of allowing the state and unions to increase the spending and decrease the efficiency and quality, a system which empowered customers to make decisions would tend towards greater efficiency and convenience, less waste and discomfort etc. I'm thinking particularly of trains but it would apply to other key public service industries as well.

    An industry run in this way would not be grinding profit out for shareholders, raising salaries for executives, or tolerating unproductive staff. It would also not be malleable in the hands of politicians. It would put customer benefit first, as it would in effect be run - or at least overseen - by customers. Of course then different groups of customers would be falling out over what they wanted to do with the service, but we'd have to cross that bridge when we came to it.

    If there was any private enterprise element in the system it should be more on a social enterprise model than shareholder profiteering. In this system surplus would be re-invested to improve the service and salaries would never be inflated beyond a certain level. There could be a productivity incentive to greater pay.
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