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    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 22nd Sep 17, 9:40 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Single Dad
    Non Molestation order question
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 17, 9:40 PM
    Non Molestation order question 22nd Sep 17 at 9:40 PM
    Some months ago my wife left. She did it in her usual way, full or drama and seeking all the attention she could get. To be honest I was glad to see the back of her.
    The the police then turned up and arrested me and my problems really started.
    She had accused me of all sorts of vile things which I wont go into here but after hearing my side the police decided no further action would be taken. I was not bailed, it was just dropped.
    I guess she was annoyed by this so she applied for a Non Mol order, she got an interim order and a couple of months ago I went to court to defend myself, she had a barrister paid for by legal aid so I was well out of my depth and certainly outgunned.
    However, in the end an undertaking was made (with no admission of guilt or finding of any guilt) that lasts 6 months. We can talk on the phone about the kids but we are not allowed to see each other face to face in person.
    Im fine with this as I felt it would at least be a clean break.
    Anyway, she has since tried to get me arrested (without success) and has not kept up her agreement to see the kids regularly or pay a penny maintenance.
    As a result of her vile accusations when she left, Social services are involved. Im not too fussed about this because since she has left the house has been a much nicer place, the kids are happier, my daughters behavior, grades and attendance at school have improved out of sight. I maintain this is because my ex was a toxic influence on the household and eventually social services will have to agree and they will be gone from out lives.
    The problem is, because my ex has let the kids down so often, the social worker wants a meeting at school with the ex, both kids and myself to hammer out an arrangement for when she sees them.
    My problem is this, We are still not allowed to see each other face to face and I am worried that i will be breaking the court order thus leaving myself open to the ex playing her games of trying to get me in trouble. The social worker said I am ok to have the meeting but I am not so sure. I dont have a solicitor for this, I cant get legal aid, the only help I can get is from internet fora like this one.
    Can anyone please advise me if I should attend this meeting or would it be a clear breach of the undertaking made with the court.
    Sorry for droning on, believe me I left a lot out and tried to keep to the basics but any advice would be massively appreciated.
    Thank you in advance.
Page 2
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 4:51 AM
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    Single Dad
    The court cannot give legal advice. The most they could do is supply a copy of the order, which I expect the OP already has. Also a NMO is a civil matter, so unless breached, the police cannot advise.

    OP please don't rely on strangers for advice, as well meaning as all posters are. If the social worker is not open to the suggestion of a conference call or similar, then you need to consult a solicitor. The cost of advice will be far less than the cost (financial and emotional) of fighting further action against you.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Thank you
    If the social workers manager refuses to allow a conference call Ill get myself to a solicitor pronto.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 4:54 AM
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    Single Dad
    I would always ask for this kind of dubious advice in writing - most people will think things through more carefully if they have to put it in writing.

    I wouldn't put yourself at risk of breaking the court rules when it's so easy to conference call or Skype.

    Put in writing to the Social Worker why you won't attend so that your ex can't make out that you've been reluctant to deal with issues about the children.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Thank you for this.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 5:02 AM
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    Single Dad
    I would not attend the meeting.

    Social workers are trained in all legal aspects of the law.

    Have your children been approached about this meeting and are they happy to attend?

    I would be very concerned if they are being forced to attend.

    Some social workers think they know best and are not taking into consideration all parties concerned.

    I would also contact the school and explain to the headteacher why you will not be present as it will show the school that you are a very responsible parent.

    You sound as if you are doing a grand job bring up your family, keep going and good luck.
    Originally posted by kelpie35
    Thank you for that. Thats nice of you to say
    Regarding the kids possibly being forced into going to the meeting.
    I have asked them if they wanted to go, they are happy to as it will be a chance for them to have their say. They have both seen the negative way the Social worker treats me and talks to me. They have also had a gut full of the social worker defending their mum when she lets them down, lies to them and basically behaves poorly. I have stressed I do not want them to take sides, they love us both but they lived through what their mum put me through and now she is still behaving badly they have had enough. They dont even like staying at her place, they only do it because I asked them to as I feel their mum has the potential to be a good mum, or at least thats what I thought. Recent events have made me question this but I do know she loves them, she is just rubbish at showing it.
    Anyway, Im starting to ramble, they will attend, have their say and hopefully be listened too. However they are at the point that if the Social worker openly sides with their mum again the brown stuff could hit the swirly thing
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 5:08 AM
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    Single Dad
    I wouldn't trust the (verbal) word of the social worker and I certainly wouldn't trust the ex-wife. What is it with women these days? Making up allegations out of revenge, it seems to be happening more and more. Something needs to be done about it, really.
    Originally posted by DoubleDoors
    The one thing I wont miss about the ex is exactly this.
    She made so many false accusations and had me arrested more times than I can remember. Ironically I am the one with the missing teeth if you catch my drift. She had a terrible upbringing and I used to use this as an excuse for her.
    When she left I was relieved, I thought 'Brilliant, I can move on and be a Dad without dealing with her crap'
    How wrong I was, she even tried to get me arrested recently because I said I wasnt happy with her for upsetting our daughter on the phone. Thankfully the police did not take her seriously this time.
    Sadly though the social worker laps up all her lies but thats social workers I guess.
    I'm confident things will get better eventually. It will no doubt be a long road but It will be worth it in the end.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 5:10 AM
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    Single Dad
    Can you access legal advice through a trade union?
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Sadly no. I cant work at the minute as I am having to look after my son. He has quite a bad stomach condition that leaves him in pain for most of the time.
    He is getting better slowly so hopefully Ill be back in work very soon.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 25th Sep 17, 5:12 AM
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    Single Dad
    Setting aside the non molestation order I would be concerned about the children having to attend such a meeting. Surely it is going to put them in an awful position.
    Originally posted by cr1mson
    I do agree but they are keen to have their say.
    Bless em, they have had a rough year. 2017 is one year Ill be glad to see the back of
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 25th Sep 17, 9:32 AM
    • 28,635 Posts
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    Mojisola
    Thank you all for the advice.
    Ill be taking it. Im going to contact the Social; workers manager today and tell her I wont be attending the meeting and why.
    Hopefully they will play ball and allow me to have my say over the phone.
    Originally posted by Single Dad
    If you do that by phone, think about recording the conservation and/or following it up in writing, stating your reasons for refusing to attend the meeting.

    With a manipulative ex, be aware that she could try to use your refusal to attend in person against you.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 25th Sep 17, 11:03 AM
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    Comms69
    OP


    An order was granted presumably under part 45 of the families act. You successfully defended this, so well done. An undertaking is a civil promise, not a criminal offence.


    You cannot be arrested for breaching it. Your wife would have to go back to court and convince a judge that it is contempt of court.


    I would suggest you write a letter to the school, the social worker, the police which outlines your concerns.


    Seperately you need to contact CMS for maintenance.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 25th Sep 17, 11:05 AM
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    Comms69
    Everyone, please understand there is no NMO in place. The Op gave an undertaking, the order is dismissed
    • athensgeorgia
    • By athensgeorgia 25th Sep 17, 3:09 PM
    • 680 Posts
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    athensgeorgia
    Sadly no. I cant work at the minute as I am having to look after my son. He has quite a bad stomach condition that leaves him in pain for most of the time.
    He is getting better slowly so hopefully Ill be back in work very soon.
    Originally posted by Single Dad
    If you feel you are having difficulties working with the social worker have you sought legal advice regarding this aspect?

    From what you have said, as you aren't working and possibly receiving benefits, you would be entitled to advice regarding social services involvement through the Legal Help scheme. I know it doesn't help regarding the ins and outs of the Non-Mol proceedings but questions regarding this social work meeting can be answered through the Legal Help/children issue side of it.
    Last edited by athensgeorgia; 25-09-2017 at 3:11 PM.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 25th Sep 17, 6:52 PM
    • 6,081 Posts
    • 7,823 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    What is the specific wording of the undertaking you gave?

    It's not a good idea to do anything in breach of it, as technically that is a contempt of court.

    It is unusual to involve children directly in any meeting, normally a social worker would speak to them, perhaps at home or in a neutral place such as school.

    I recommend that you speak to a solicitor and get some proper advice. If you can, find a solicitor who deals with both public and private children law, as they will be familiar with Social Services' powers and processes.

    You can also tell the social worker that as your undertaking to the court prevents you from sitting down with your ex, you will be happy to meet with her if she is prepared to cooperate to take a joint application to the court for you to be released from the undertaking. Please be aware that because the undertaking is given to the court, it is the court, not your ex, who has the power to release you from it.

    Also, social workers are not legally trained or qualified - never assume that they are correct when telling you about it!

    Have you been given copied of minutes from any previous meetings with social services? If not, ask for these, review them for factual accuracy and respond in writing if they have made any factual errors (for instance, stating your wife's allegations as facts rather than stating that these are her allegations) Again, arranging for a solicitor to attend with you may help you.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 26th Sep 17, 12:51 AM
    • 15,624 Posts
    • 11,420 Thanks
    hollydays
    If you've been accused of domestic abuse, which isn't black and white, and if the children have been placed on the at risk register, you may also need to be careful That your refusal to attend the meeting could be seen as controlling/ manipulative.
    There has been some indication that you can attend the meeting, so I think that's a point you should be taking into account, and ask the social worker to provide the evidence you can attend, as explained by comms69.
    I wouldn't just say your " not attending"
    I don't see the harm In attending the meeting if the children don't mind.
    Last edited by hollydays; 26-09-2017 at 1:29 AM.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 30th Sep 17, 2:21 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Single Dad
    If you do that by phone, think about recording the conservation and/or following it up in writing, stating your reasons for refusing to attend the meeting.

    With a manipulative ex, be aware that she could try to use your refusal to attend in person against you.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Thank you. I have a recording app on my phone so it will be recorded to protect myself. I have made it clear to the social worker on a previous occasion my phone records all calls so she cant complain in fact I think I even mentioned it to her manager too.
    Regarding not attending,,,,,,,
    I took advice from this thread and contacted the courts for clarification. They advised me I would be breaching my agreement with the courts but also advised me to get some independent legal advice.
    It was an expense I didnt want and can not really afford but did it anyway but Im glad I did as they said it was a big no no and I would be asking for trouble.
    I told the Social worker the situation, surprisingly she was both Ok with it and actually said she understood my position.
    The conference call suggestion was made and accepted but then guess what??
    The Ex did not even show due to 'a migraine'
    So all this stress hassle and expense on my part was for nothing.
    Typical of her really but at least now when the meeting is rescheduled everyone knows I wont attend in person AND it wont be an issue or problem of any kind.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 30th Sep 17, 2:25 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Single Dad
    OP


    An order was granted presumably under part 45 of the families act. You successfully defended this, so well done. An undertaking is a civil promise, not a criminal offence.


    You cannot be arrested for breaching it. Your wife would have to go back to court and convince a judge that it is contempt of court.


    I would suggest you write a letter to the school, the social worker, the police which outlines your concerns.


    Seperately you need to contact CMS for maintenance.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Thank you for this.
    I was in touch with the CMS after seeing your post and they have now got the ball rolling.
    The sad thing is the Ex is lying about her income. She claims she is only earning £120 per week take home, this is an out and out lie. She even managed to get a fake wage slip to back up her lie so unless I unleash the inland revenue on her I wont be getting anything like what she should be paying and in fact what the kids really need.
    This whole episode has opened my eyes. I knew her for over 20 years but never really knew her at all.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 30th Sep 17, 2:27 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Single Dad
    If you feel you are having difficulties working with the social worker have you sought legal advice regarding this aspect?

    From what you have said, as you aren't working and possibly receiving benefits, you would be entitled to advice regarding social services involvement through the Legal Help scheme. I know it doesn't help regarding the ins and outs of the Non-Mol proceedings but questions regarding this social work meeting can be answered through the Legal Help/children issue side of it.
    Originally posted by athensgeorgia
    Yes I am having some difficulty working with the social worker but I had no idea I may be able to get legal help with it. Thank you very much I will be looking into that first thing Monday.
    Thank you again, youre a star...
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 30th Sep 17, 2:30 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Single Dad
    What is the specific wording of the undertaking you gave?

    It's not a good idea to do anything in breach of it, as technically that is a contempt of court.

    It is unusual to involve children directly in any meeting, normally a social worker would speak to them, perhaps at home or in a neutral place such as school.

    I recommend that you speak to a solicitor and get some proper advice. If you can, find a solicitor who deals with both public and private children law, as they will be familiar with Social Services' powers and processes.

    You can also tell the social worker that as your undertaking to the court prevents you from sitting down with your ex, you will be happy to meet with her if she is prepared to cooperate to take a joint application to the court for you to be released from the undertaking. Please be aware that because the undertaking is given to the court, it is the court, not your ex, who has the power to release you from it.

    Also, social workers are not legally trained or qualified - never assume that they are correct when telling you about it!

    Have you been given copied of minutes from any previous meetings with social services? If not, ask for these, review them for factual accuracy and respond in writing if they have made any factual errors (for instance, stating your wife's allegations as facts rather than stating that these are her allegations) Again, arranging for a solicitor to attend with you may help you.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Thank you. I got the legal advice and was advised not to attend. I have no minutes of any meeting that I can recall so I will be asking the social worker to provide them asap.
    Thank you for your help.
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 30th Sep 17, 2:35 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Single Dad
    If you've been accused of domestic abuse, which isn't black and white, and if the children have been placed on the at risk register, you may also need to be careful That your refusal to attend the meeting could be seen as controlling/ manipulative.
    There has been some indication that you can attend the meeting, so I think that's a point you should be taking into account, and ask the social worker to provide the evidence you can attend, as explained by comms69.
    I wouldn't just say your " not attending"
    I don't see the harm In attending the meeting if the children don't mind.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Thanks for your post.
    The reason I cant attend is because i made an undertaking to the court I would not see the Ex in person. Only speak on the phone, text and email and then only if it relates to the kids .
    I dont recall saying i would just say 'i'm not attending' . I gave the social worker the reason I could not attend. I believe she then spoke their the SS legal adviser to clarification and then accepted I could not attend.
    Thanks again for you post.
    • Primrose
    • By Primrose 30th Sep 17, 8:39 PM
    • 7,864 Posts
    • 26,692 Thanks
    Primrose
    If you feel your social worker is biased towards your wife, could you ask to be allocated a different social worker ?

    Also do you have car insurance or contents insurance? Check your policy details. Some of them have a legal facilities which provide free consultations.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • 1,227 Posts
    • 1,011 Thanks
    Comms69
    Thank you for this.
    I was in touch with the CMS after seeing your post and they have now got the ball rolling.
    The sad thing is the Ex is lying about her income. She claims she is only earning £120 per week take home, this is an out and out lie. She even managed to get a fake wage slip to back up her lie so unless I unleash the inland revenue on her I wont be getting anything like what she should be paying and in fact what the kids really need.
    This whole episode has opened my eyes. I knew her for over 20 years but never really knew her at all.
    Originally posted by Single Dad


    They should base it upon her p60, which she cant fake.


    Unless she's self-employed and just dodging tax in general that is.


    Even at £120 per week she will owe you something
    • Single Dad
    • By Single Dad 14th Oct 17, 9:57 PM
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    Single Dad
    Sorry for the delay in replying. As i was not 100% sure what the working situation was i thought it best to find out for certain before replying.
    She is self employed. I understand its a recent development but yeah, she has gone self employed so I'm guessing it is going to be more difficult proving exactly how much she earns.
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