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  • FIRST POST
    • Mxe21
    • By Mxe21 22nd Sep 17, 3:15 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Mxe21
    12 July First Parking LLP
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:15 PM
    12 July First Parking LLP 22nd Sep 17 at 3:15 PM
    Hi All

    On 12/7/17 during the summer holidays from university I was called in for a meeting with a member of staff and parked in the university car park and forgot to use the pay and display machine to get a ticket.

    Following my meeting I came back to find the fine issues by first parking llc. I am the first driver of this car however the registered keeper is my father.

    Since then I have received letters addressed to my father to pay up and now today the 21/9/17 I have received a letter from national debt collections LTD demanding a payment of unpaid parking notice for £160.

    The letter also states 'if you are considering ignoring this correspondence' and mentions a judgement in the Beavis court case and basically says how parking operators have the upper hand in cases like this?

    What would be the next steps for me as I believe it's too late to appeal and the letter states that if I do not make the payment within 14 days that they will recommend to the creditor to consult court action. Obviously they will be doing this against my father who is the registered keeper of the vehicle. What should I do in this situation? Should I just accept that I screwed up and pay the £160 to avoid any action being taken against my father as I don't want this to cause any further problems to him or are there steps available for me to put an end to this?

    Thank you for your time
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 17, 3:56 PM
    You should not have ignored this, the forum has not advised to ignore these since early 2013! He should have appealed as keeper (you could have done that in his name, with our help, and won). Anyway:

    If he is not comfortable with a possible court claim, and you are (because we win 99% of the time and it's no biggie, no CCJ as long as no court papers or deadline are missed) why not get him to name you as the driver?

    That puts you in a weaker position than he would be in to defend the case, because keepers can rely on the POFA 2012 and drivers can't. BUT if he's minded to give in and pay it or won't defend it, then he needs to transfer liability to you.

    I would NOT pay £160 until a Judge told me to, personally.

    But decide now if he names you, by letter or email with your full name and postal address stated (even if it's the same as his) and he should say: This letter/email formally transfers liability under Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012. Do not write to me again, take it up with the driver.

    Then come back here about your own case to defend - like I say, no biggie and not worth paying £160 to a scumbag parking firm, to avoid the fight!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mxe21
    • By Mxe21 22nd Sep 17, 10:26 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mxe21
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 10:26 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 10:26 PM
    Thanks for your reply

    I admit it was my error in ignoring the letters and taking it lightly. I was under the misconception that after a while it would be forgotten or ignored but clearly I was wrong.

    As the original parking offence was made on university parking would it be worthwhile speaking to somebody at the university to potentially strike a deal of some sort? If so, do you know who exactly would be able to do something about this?

    If I were to have the case transferred to my name, how likely would it be that I could walk away with paying nothing? I mean I'm pretty sure there were signs around it's just as I was in a rush I found the first space and jetted off to the meeting.

    Also would I have to actually turn up to county court?

    For me it seems that if I am to take on this whole process of fighting and then eventually being ordered by a judge to pay £160 then maybe I should just pay it now before they double the amount again or do credit checks on my father.

    One thing I've noticed is both first parking llc and national debt collections Ltd do not have any postal addresses or contact numbers other than to make payments.

    I was advised to have my father write to the NDC address on the letter stating myself as the named driver & address etc and to stop chasing him up regarding the payment and then refer to the Protection from harassment act 1997 and the DPA 1998. Is there a possibility of this bringing the case to the end? Or will this just shift it over into my name and take me to court instead or demand payment.

    It is a ridiculous amount but unfortunately it looks like if there's no way out then it was my error that I'm going to have to pay for.

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Sep 17, 10:58 PM
    • 14,962 Posts
    • 23,481 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 17, 10:58 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 17, 10:58 PM
    As the original parking offence was made on university parking would it be worthwhile speaking to somebody at the university to potentially strike a deal of some sort? If so, do you know who exactly would be able to do something about this?
    You go to this Unversity and you're asking people here, who could be based anywhere in the world (check my user name), who could do something about this for you? Is this for real?

    If I were to have the case transferred to my name, how likely would it be that I could walk away with paying nothing?
    Depends on how well you research and put effort into dealing with it, with help from the forum.

    Also would I have to actually turn up to county court?
    Yes. But who's said this is going to court?

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/First_Parking_LLP.html

    For me it seems that if I am to take on this whole process of fighting and then eventually being ordered by a judge to pay £160 then maybe I should just pay it now before they double the amount again or do credit checks on my father.
    Do you see a glass as half full or half empty?

    We wouldn't recommend you taking this on if we didn't think you could win. You need to do far more research if you think the stuff you've written in this quote is anywhere near likely.

    I was advised to have my father write to the NDC address on the letter stating myself as the named driver & address etc and to stop chasing him up regarding the payment and then refer to the Protection from harassment act 1997 and the DPA 1998. Is there a possibility of this bringing the case to the end? Or will this just shift it over into my name and take me to court instead or demand payment.
    It will need to take its entire course. It won't end just by transferring liability, but it does open open a previous closed route to POPLA.

    FFS - who is taking you to court?

    It is a ridiculous amount but unfortunately it looks like if there's no way out then it was my error that I'm going to have to pay for.
    Very often, when I see such defeatist statements, I'm inclined to say, 'Just get on with it, pay up, I'm done', but the fighter in me says 'Just grow some and get on with it because we are here and prepared to advise you'.

    Your call though! Please let us know whether we are to hang on, or close the case as a victory for the scam that has just swallowed you!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 22nd Sep 17, 11:17 PM
    • 2,063 Posts
    • 2,475 Thanks
    waamo
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 17, 11:17 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 17, 11:17 PM
    if there's no way out then it was my error that I'm going to have to pay for.
    How did you come to that conclusion given the advice you've been given so far says the opposite?
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Sep 17, 12:24 AM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 17, 12:24 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 17, 12:24 AM
    If I were to have the case transferred to my name, how likely would it be that I could walk away with paying nothing?
    Please re-read my reply where I told you we win 99% of cases...why ask again? Do you want to win?

    Also would I have to actually turn up to county court?
    Yes if F1rst bother. As we've shown you, they aren't the sharpest, not at all litigious, follow the BMPA link and take a look how often they've issued a court claim! And the case in question is on here, on this forum, and currently being defended robustly by someone with more than one PCN from their Uni (you have one little old PCN, hardly likely to be singled out).

    For me it seems that if I am to take on this whole process of fighting and then eventually being ordered by a judge to pay £160 then maybe I should just pay it now before they double the amount again or do credit checks on my father.
    Who told you they could 'double the amount' or 'do credit checks on your Dad?'!! Neither is true.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-09-2017 at 12:27 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mxe21
    • By Mxe21 2nd Oct 17, 9:54 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mxe21
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 9:54 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Oct 17, 9:54 PM
    Hi all

    Following the advice on this thread My father sent a letter to both national debt collections ltd and first parking llp stating that he was not the driver at the time of the ticket and that it was myself and has included my name and address and that he is transferring liability to me under schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

    Also included in the letter was that first parking llp and national debt collections have no legitimate reason to continue to harass my father in accordance with the protection from harassment act 1997 and the data protection act 1998. The letter was ended with ‘do not write to me again, take it up with the driver’.

    Today my father received a letter from first parking llp stating that it ‘it’s too late to appeal with first parking llp’ and they included a copy of the notice to keeper with a highlight over ‘if you are unable to provide the driver’s name and valid address and the amount remains outstanding after 28 days, the creditor has the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper as described under schedule 4 of POFA 2012’.

    First parking llp then go on to say that the above notice is currently with national debt collections who have given me 14 days from 19/9 to pay the £160 they are demanding.

    National debt collections ltd have not yet replied to the letter that was sent to them and so I don’t know their position on the situation. In the original demand for payment letter NDC state that I have a 14 day period from the date of the letter 19th Sept to pay up, is that midnight 2/10 or 3/10? and combined with the fact that first parking are basically saying it’s too late and that it’s up to NDC, does this weaken my case in any way?

    What should my next step be? Can national debt collections continue to pursue me for the £160? There is literally no way for me to contact them again before the 14 day period is up as I can only contact them by post so I’m worried as to what happens next.
    • Mxe21
    • By Mxe21 2nd Oct 17, 10:02 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Mxe21
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:02 PM
    Also, I forgot to mention that due to the degree and subsequent career path that I’m studying at university for, an appearance at court as a result of this situation would have to be declared to my university at the start of the next academic year. As far as I know this could affect my place on the course (hence why I’m very panicky at the sight of threats of court action)
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 2nd Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    • 3,955 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 17, 10:45 PM
    Also, I forgot to mention that due to the degree and subsequent career path that I’m studying at university for, an appearance at court as a result of this situation would have to be declared to my university at the start of the next academic year. As far as I know this could affect my place on the course (hence why I’m very panicky at the sight of threats of court action)
    Originally posted by Mxe21
    Are you sure about that?

    Or is it just criminal cases they are interested in?

    This parking issue is purely a civil matter.

    Anyway, put that to one side for a moment.
    In the information your were given ten days ago you will have seen that in the first half of this year FIRST PARKING LLP have issued 11312 tickets.
    Did you notice how many court cases they've had this year?

    Odds of 11312:1 are good in anyone's book.
    Last edited by KeithP; 02-10-2017 at 10:49 PM.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 11:51 PM
    • 50,691 Posts
    • 64,105 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Also, I forgot to mention that due to the degree and subsequent career path that I’m studying at university for, an appearance at court as a result of this situation would have to be declared to my university at the start of the next academic year. As far as I know this could affect my place on the course (hence why I’m very panicky at the sight of threats of court action)
    Originally posted by Mxe21
    Impossible. It's a small claim with zero repercussions on your credit file or any file. It's a chancer company saying you owe them money, and you saying 'no I don't'. Not a court case/criminal matter.

    As for the rubbish reply that F1rst sent to your Dad, we assume you will know how to rebut that because you'll have read Schedule 4 of the POFA by now (being at Uni and doing a research degree of some kind). You'll surely have seen and already know that in fact, the right to pursue a registered keeper because the PPC doesn't know who was driving CEASES TO APPLY, if at ANY TIME AFTER the first 28 days - and before proceedings commence - that keeper names the driver, with an address for service where that driver can be reached.

    It's only too late after proceedings (a court claim) commences; you've read this I trust:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

    5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

    (a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

    (b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

    (2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-10-2017 at 11:57 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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