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  • FIRST POST
    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 18th Sep 17, 9:42 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 2Thanks
    tow2316
    BW Legal threat post missing PCN letters from IPC
    • #1
    • 18th Sep 17, 9:42 PM
    BW Legal threat post missing PCN letters from IPC 18th Sep 17 at 9:42 PM
    Hi,

    I have read the newbies thread and advice but struggling to formulate my exact response.

    My partner (the keeper) has received a PCN from VCS (vehicle control services IPC member) after a driver parked outside of a bay in a full car park (not blocking any entrances/exits or on any yellow hashed lines).

    We missed the 2 letters from the VCS as we were in Ireland as my partners father passed away (we were away for 2 months). Upon our return we (soon after) received a letter from BW Legal who have taken over recovering the 'balance due'.

    I have seen this thread that I can use to respond (/showthread.php?t=5673397), is this appropriate course of action or have I missed something? (confused!) Also should I email BW Legal or VCS?

    Sorry if this is basic level stuff but I want to get this right and don't want to stress my partner anymore as this has been a tough couple of months.

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Sep 17, 10:39 PM
    • 54,026 Posts
    • 67,685 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 18th Sep 17, 10:39 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Sep 17, 10:39 PM
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5673397

    Yes you can edit and adapt that sort of thing, with nothing about the Equality Act obviously, and nothing specific to CEL/Wright Hassall (change to VCS/BW Legal).

    I would say your partner replies as registered keeper, with some of what's in that example you read, but also saying you've been away in Ireland due to a bereavement, since July, have no idea what this is about and consider it unwarranted harassment. Ask them to furnish you with a copy of the sign, all photos taken and to explain whether they contend that the keeper is liable under the POFA or whether the client is assuming the keeper was driving, as they can't proceed without open communication and explaining the cause of action, and basis of liability sought.

    The idea is to stop them from proceeding before 1st October, tie BW Legal up before the rules change on pre-action conduct (as stated on loads of threads recently).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 19th Sep 17, 6:52 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tow2316
    • #3
    • 19th Sep 17, 6:52 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Sep 17, 6:52 PM
    Thank you!

    Will formulate a response and email it tonight,

    Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

    Thanks
    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 1st Dec 17, 7:36 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tow2316
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 7:36 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 7:36 PM
    Hi,

    I took your advice and BW legal backed off, citing they would 'talk to their client'.

    However, we received this week a letter asking for proof that my partner was out of the country with her father very ill/passing away at the time of the ticket. I have a few questions, if you could help?

    1) is this a legal request to make?
    2) we have the email bookings that proove she (the registered keeper) was out of the country, should we just send them those?
    3) Is this a trick to narrow down who could have been the driver? (I specifically stated in the rebuttal email that we would not be naming the driver)
    4) what should I do? (reply with evidence, reply without evidence or ignore)?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks,

    Tom
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 1st Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    • 211 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Ryandavis1959
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    Why don!!!8217;t you just name the driver? If you wasn!!!8217;t driving that car then why should you have to suffer all of this stress? Just tell them who was driving and then it!!!8217;s their problem!

    Naming the driver now is the clear money saving option. I reckon any legal advisor would agree.
    Last edited by Ryandavis1959; 01-12-2017 at 8:28 PM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 1st Dec 17, 9:25 PM
    • 6,942 Posts
    • 9,038 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 9:25 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 9:25 PM
    Hi,

    I took your advice and BW legal backed off, citing they would 'talk to their client'.

    However, we received this week a letter asking for proof that my partner was out of the country with her father very ill/passing away at the time of the ticket. I have a few questions, if you could help?

    1) is this a legal request to make?
    2) we have the email bookings that proove she (the registered keeper) was out of the country, should we just send them those?
    3) Is this a trick to narrow down who could have been the driver? (I specifically stated in the rebuttal email that we would not be naming the driver)
    4) what should I do? (reply with evidence, reply without evidence or ignore)?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks,

    Tom
    Originally posted by tow2316
    As far as the legalities go, it would only be a court and
    a real judge who would decide. Do remember that the
    great parking scam is unregulated. As such why would
    you provide any data to company just because they
    have Legal in their name.

    You can confirm to them only what you have provided
    already.
    If they are stupid enough to continue then the next
    stage will be a claim where they must provide full
    information as per the new procedures.
    In return, you can then provide your statement which
    the court will see as well.
    Will they continue then ????

    All BWLegal can do is ..
    1: Drop it
    2: Issue court proceedings against the keeper
    as they don't know who was driving, but the whereabouts
    of the keeper at the time is already known.

    Play the game, you have more evidence than they do.
    Naming the driver would be very foolish
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Dec 17, 11:10 PM
    • 16,652 Posts
    • 26,044 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:10 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:10 PM
    If you have proof, send a copy to them and, given that you have acquiesced to their request and provided such proof, require them to cancel the parking charge. I!!!8217;d copy their request and your response and evidence to the DVLA. Mark your response to them !!!8216;cc Mr David Dunford, DVLA, Swansea!!!8217;.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    If they don!!!8217;t know who the driver was, then, particularly as the keeper has evidence that it wasn!!!8217;t them, you do not provide details of the driver. You are neither legally nor morally obliged to do so.

    Please ignore the misguided advice in post #5!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 4th Dec 17, 7:41 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tow2316
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:41 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:41 PM
    Thanks @umkomass and @beamerguy. This has been a great help and I have used your advice to formulate a response.

    I hope they drop it this time. Will post here if anything changes. But thanks again for your great help.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 4th Dec 17, 7:49 PM
    • 6,942 Posts
    • 9,038 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:49 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 7:49 PM
    Thanks @umkomass and @beamerguy. This has been a great help and I have used your advice to formulate a response.

    I hope they drop it this time. Will post here if anything changes. But thanks again for your great help.
    Originally posted by tow2316
    So let us know, BWLegal are simply a joke
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 13th Jan 18, 6:04 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tow2316
    Hi all,
    Bw legal replied today,

    They state "it is irrelevant that you were out of the country" and go on to mention

    Under section 4 of the protection of freedoms act they are entitled to pursue you as the registered keeper as I won't provide details of the driver.

    They want to provide details of the driver otherwise they will pursue the owner for the balance due as the registered keeper.

    This doesn't seem in line with the legal process. Can anyone advise?

    They also claimed twice since my last post that I hadn't replied despite having done so, changed the reference number and wrote letters ignoring my responses intimidating me to pay.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 6:16 PM
    • 54,026 Posts
    • 67,685 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Can anyone advise?
    They would say that, wouldn't they? Not sure you need advice on their lies, it's obvious why they mislead.

    Reply with a screenshot of VCS' NTK words about the 'after 28 days...registered keeper' (low down on page one) which I am guessing was the usual 'we will pursue the rk on the ASSUMPTION they were the driver' (am I right?).

    And then quote the real words from Scheudle 4 para 9(2)(f) and ask BW Legal to FORMALLY confirm that their legal position is going to be, in court, that the NTK is POFA compliant, and that VCS WILL be 'relying on the POFA'. And if in the alternative, VCS will not be relying upon the POFA, what exactly will they be relying on as their excuse to harass you, as a registered keeper who was not driving, and has proved they were out of the country?*



    *if you haven't proved it, prove it NOW - flight tickets or a signed witness statement from family.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 13th Jan 18, 10:17 PM
    • 211 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Ryandavis1959
    I still don!!!8217;t understand why you don!!!8217;t just name that driver? If you were out the country it clearly wasn!!!8217;t you, so tell them who it was and let that person deal with this! It!!!8217;s crazy that you are having to waste your time here. No idea why no one else isn!!!8217;t advising you to do this. If you provide the driver details then the fake invoice is gone, finished, MONEY SAVING.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 10:27 PM
    • 34,516 Posts
    • 18,486 Thanks
    Quentin
    I still don!!!8217;t understand why you don!!!8217;t just name that driver? If you were out the country it clearly wasn!!!8217;t you, so tell them who it was and let that person deal with this! It!!!8217;s crazy that you are having to waste your time here. No idea why no one else isn!!!8217;t advising you to do this. If you provide the driver details then the fake invoice is gone, finished, MONEY SAVING.
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    No-one is advising the OP to name the driver because of obvious reasons!!


    The OP has already been advised to ignore this advice when you posted it last year.


    Duplicating it now makes no difference


    OP, please keep ignoring the advice in #5 and now #12!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 10:42 PM
    • 54,026 Posts
    • 67,685 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I still don!!!8217;t understand why you don!!!8217;t just name that driver?
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    Because as you well know, that gives the PPC a person they might be able to pursue, whereas at the moment the PPC are up the creek without a paddle.

    You know that, we know that. Obviously the keeper defends & DOES NOT name the driver to drop that person in it.

    You are misleading newbies. Kindly stop doing that.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 18, 12:01 PM
    • 40,938 Posts
    • 81,719 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I still donít understand why you donít just name that driver? If you were out the country it clearly wasnít you, so tell them who it was and let that person deal with this! Itís crazy that you are having to waste your time here. No idea why no one else isnít advising you to do this. If you provide the driver details then the fake invoice is gone, finished, MONEY SAVING.
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    That's because you haven't properly understood what the OP put in their first post.

    Please don't try to give out dreadful advice that could cost someone a lot of hassle and money. What you have suggested is the opposite of money saving.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jan 18, 1:01 PM
    • 6,942 Posts
    • 9,038 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I still don!!!8217;t understand why you don!!!8217;t just name that driver? If you were out the country it clearly wasn!!!8217;t you, so tell them who it was and let that person deal with this! It!!!8217;s crazy that you are having to waste your time here. No idea why no one else isn!!!8217;t advising you to do this. If you provide the driver details then the fake invoice is gone, finished, MONEY SAVING.
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    You never do understand and your so called ill conceived advice
    must be ignored.

    Was it you who advised Carly ???
    We all felt sorry for Carly

    "No idea why no one else isn!!!8217;t advising you to do this"

    Simple, nobody else wants to give bad advice
    Last edited by beamerguy; 14-01-2018 at 1:13 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • tow2316
    • By tow2316 14th Jan 18, 8:06 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tow2316
    Thanks for the advice again people. Seems to be some very helpful posters it's much appreciated. I will respond and let you know of when they get back to me.
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