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  • FIRST POST
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 17th Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 14Thanks
    butterflies56
    confusion re: CB ESA and IR ESA letter
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    confusion re: CB ESA and IR ESA letter 17th Sep 17 at 8:43 PM
    Hi Everyone
    I am new here and looking for some guidance on how to try and approach DWP about...
    Was moved over from IB to CB ESA Support Group in 2012.
    The letter states that I am entitled to CB ESA(which I gather is the way everyone is transferred)
    Within the letter which is from 2012 it says that I maybe entitled to IR ESA

    The actual back page details the payments including the wording...
    "No income will be taken off your Employment and Support Allowance

    Your income related amount is £105.05 less £0.00 so you would have been entitled to £105.05( according to this sentence it looks as though I am not entitled to IR ESA even though I have no savings, live alone, and no one gets any allowances for me)

    However because you are entitled to contributions based Employment Support Allowance
    we will pay you £105.05

    My question is Is this letter meant to be confusing regarding IR ESA and do I need to talk to the DWP about why there is no enhanced disability premium as I have been in the Support Group since transfer from IB to ESA

    I would appreciate any help before I pick up the phone to the dreaded DWP
Page 1
    • epitome
    • By epitome 17th Sep 17, 9:18 PM
    • 3,022 Posts
    • 1,836 Thanks
    epitome
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:18 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:18 PM
    Are you currently getting ESA £109.65 = £219.30 a fortnight?

    Your letter appears to be typically wrong, the DWP often sends out letters which are inherently wrong....

    Ok here's the score...you will have an ESA inception date, that letter might say what date your ESA starts from....

    On ESA IR you would be entitled to the same as ESAConts plus an Enhanced Dis Premium EDP (currently £15.90). and possiblly a Severe Dis Premium SDP (currently £62) but to get SDP you must first have PIP Daily or DLA care (middle or high).

    Ok now, what most DWP staff do not know is that if you were never sent an ESA3 at the time of migration...and you have not been sent one at any time since you were migrated... then you can ask for an ESA3 and on the date field you can put your ESA start date xx/xx/2012 and your ESA IR *should* be backdated to 2012.

    However, if there is any note on your ESA records held at DWP that an ESA3 was sent on xx/xx/2012 or at any time since then...... you will NOT be successful and your ESA IR will be started from the date you phone ESA to ask them for an ESA3 i.e. Monday 18th September 2017.

    This is what I suggest.... Phone tomorrow, do not bother to ask them for advice about backdating the ESA3 to 2012... I have already told you all you need to know, and asking them (who are not decision makers) will only confuse the issue as they probably have no clue about what is possible.

    What you should ask... is
    What date did my ESA start? It should be on there as 2012, but if it says some later date like 2016 ask them to look for previous claims held on system, ask them to look at the start date of the previous claim and the previous one and etc etc until you get back to 2012. These are what DWP call "rebuilds" even though your claim has been continuous, on the computer it could show as having rebuilds.... and the original date of 2012 may have been deleted altogether. If this is the case it could become a problem, but we will cross that bridge if we come to it.

    Ask them:
    Is my claim ESA Conts Only? or is it ESA Conts & ESA IR?
    Ask them to tell you the amount of conts and the amount of IR
    Tell me the answer here.

    Ask them
    Ok I was migrated in 2012 is there any note on your systems that says an ESA3 was sent to me since 2012?
    Ask them to check JSAPS notes and CAM contact notes.
    Ask What date is the earliest note on JSAPS screen JA110?

    Finally, ask them to send you an ESA3.
    But realise that you can pick one up from a local jobcentre.

    If you already know what date ESA started to pay you from, and you don't want to phone the DWP and ask all the above questions...you don't have to...you could just go to a jobcentre and ask for an ESA3 to be given to you... Fill it in with the start date of your ESA on page 1. Put a covering letter with it to say "I wish to have ESA IR backdated to my ESA start date xx/xx/2012 because I was never assessed for ESA IR at the time of migration."

    If you don't phone and ask all of the above then you won't know what their system notes say.... so if you just send an ESA3 from a jobcentre you won't know -if they refuse you the backdating- whether they are right to refuse you.

    If you do phone, the person you speak to should be perfectly nice to deal with and should look and tell you what they see on your records, they have no reason to lie to you.

    If you want more help with this ...post here when you have some more information for me. I will be able to help, if you want to Man Recon and appeal their decision.

    Oh....and when you return the ESA3 do not post it..... if possible, phone ESA and ask for a jobcentre appointment -or ask the jobcentre directly to make you an appointment- to have your ESA3 scanned to ESA, this is much safer and much much quicker way of getting it done. Anyone can take it to the jobcentre appointment for you.
    Last edited by epitome; 17-09-2017 at 9:25 PM.
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 17th Sep 17, 9:39 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    butterflies56
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:39 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:39 PM
    Hi Epitome
    Yes I am on £219.30 a fortnight!
    Thank you so much for all this information. I really appreciate it very much.
    I have definitely not had a a form ESA3 at the time. I keep all DWP paperwork in files.
    I will read this through a few times and follow your instructions to the letter!!
    I am still on DLA HRM/LRC indefinite award so have been trying to get things in order for when this happens hence the stumbling across EDP entitlement today online
    I am housebound so will ring and ask for ESA3.

    Wow I am so grateful to you fro taking all the time to help me.
    Last edited by butterflies56; 17-09-2017 at 9:41 PM. Reason: missed information
    • Dullville
    • By Dullville 17th Sep 17, 9:40 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 122 Thanks
    Dullville
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:40 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:40 PM
    Are you currently getting ESA £109.65 = £219.30 a fortnight?

    Your letter appears to be typically wrong, the DWP often sends out letters which are inherently wrong....

    Ok here's the score...you will have an ESA inception date, that letter might say what date your ESA starts from....

    On ESA IR you would be entitled to the same as ESAConts plus an Enhanced Dis Premium EDP (currently £15.90). and possiblly a Severe Dis Premium SDP (currently £62) but to get SDP you must first have PIP Daily or DLA care (middle or high).

    Ok now, what most DWP staff do not know is that if you were never sent an ESA3 at the time of migration...and you have not been sent one at any time since you were migrated... then you can ask for an ESA3 and on the date field you can put your ESA start date xx/xx/2012 and your ESA IR *should* be backdated to 2012.

    However, if there is any note on your ESA records held at DWP that an ESA3 was sent on xx/xx/2012 or at any time since then...... you will NOT be successful and your ESA IR will be started from the date you phone ESA to ask them for an ESA3 i.e. Monday 18th September 2017.

    This is what I suggest.... Phone tomorrow, do not bother to ask them for advice about backdating the ESA3 to 2012... I have already told you all you need to know, and asking them (who are not decision makers) will only confuse the issue as they probably have no clue about what is possible.

    What you should ask... is
    What date did my ESA start? It should be on there as 2012, but if it says some later date like 2016 ask them to look for previous claims held on system, ask them to look at the start date of the previous claim and the previous one and etc etc until you get back to 2012. These are what DWP call "rebuilds" even though your claim has been continuous, on the computer it could show as having rebuilds.... and the original date of 2012 may have been deleted altogether. If this is the case it could become a problem, but we will cross that bridge if we come to it.

    Ask them:
    Is my claim ESA Conts Only? or is it ESA Conts & ESA IR?
    Ask them to tell you the amount of conts and the amount of IR
    Tell me the answer here.

    Ask them
    Ok I was migrated in 2012 is there any note on your systems that says an ESA3 was sent to me since 2012?
    Ask them to check JSAPS notes and CAM contact notes.
    Ask What date is the earliest note on JSAPS screen JA110?

    Finally, ask them to send you an ESA3.
    But realise that you can pick one up from a local jobcentre.

    If you already know what date ESA started to pay you from, and you don't want to phone the DWP and ask all the above questions...you don't have to...you could just go to a jobcentre and ask for an ESA3 to be given to you... Fill it in with the start date of your ESA on page 1. Put a covering letter with it to say "I wish to have ESA IR backdated to my ESA start date xx/xx/2012 because I was never assessed for ESA IR at the time of migration."

    If you don't phone and ask all of the above then you won't know what their system notes say.... so if you just send an ESA3 from a jobcentre you won't know -if they refuse you the backdating- whether they are right to refuse you.

    If you do phone, the person you speak to should be perfectly nice to deal with and should look and tell you what they see on your records, they have no reason to lie to you.

    If you want more help with this ...post here when you have some more information for me. I will be able to help, if you want to Man Recon and appeal their decision.

    Oh....and when you return the ESA3 do not post it..... if possible, phone ESA and ask for a jobcentre appointment -or ask the jobcentre directly to make you an appointment- to have your ESA3 scanned to ESA, this is much safer and much much quicker way of getting it done. Anyone can take it to the jobcentre appointment for you.
    Originally posted by epitome
    What an amazing and detailed answer..well impressed.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 18th Sep 17, 8:10 AM
    • 4,249 Posts
    • 4,428 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 17, 8:10 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 17, 8:10 AM
    Wonderfully detailed reply by epitome.
    Sadly, it was all too common for people simply to be moved from IB to Conts based ESA without an ESA3 being sent out. The ESA3 should have been sent to every person who was migrated between the two benefits, but it is accepted that this didn't happen. There is no excuse for that despite the fact that staff were put under great pressure to complete the migration by a set date. Sadly, that is also typical of how things are done at DWP (can't speak for other government departments). To management it is far more important to stick to deadlines than to get things right.
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 18th Sep 17, 1:10 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    butterflies56
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 17, 1:10 PM
    Quick update
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 17, 1:10 PM
    Hi Epitome

    I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to the ESA today and the very nice lady told me that there was no note to say that any ESA3 form had ever been sent.
    She is sending me one out and I can back date it to 2012.

    Thanks again Epitome
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 18th Sep 17, 2:34 PM
    • 4,249 Posts
    • 4,428 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 17, 2:34 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 17, 2:34 PM
    Hi Epitome

    I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to the ESA today and the very nice lady told me that there was no note to say that any ESA3 form had ever been sent.
    She is sending me one out and I can back date it to 2012.

    Thanks again Epitome
    Originally posted by butterflies56
    That is great news. Ridiculous that an underpayment has been going on for 5 years, but a nice little windfall with Christmas not too far away.
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 20th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    butterflies56
    • #8
    • 20th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    ESA3 form arrived!
    • #8
    • 20th Sep 17, 1:59 PM
    Hi Epitome and all full of knowledge people

    I have received the ESA3(well actually it's an ESA1 with "Treat as ESA3" written on the front as the lady told me they had none in the office so she would send ESA1 instead which is basically the same form

    My question is ...
    Should I write in the additional information about my reason for requesting the ESA3 form.... Want claim backdated to ESA contr based support group migration date so that I can claim Enhanced Disability Premium or do I just complete to form and send it back without additional info?

    Also if I tick the box to claim income related ESA will I be taken off ESA contr or will it be a top up(or can I ask for top up) if that makes sense?!

    Thanks very much
    • epitome
    • By epitome 20th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    • 3,022 Posts
    • 1,836 Thanks
    epitome
    • #9
    • 20th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    You do tick the box for Income Related, even if it is awarded you will still receive ESA Conts at £109.65 a week. Plus a bit more for ESA IR (top up)

    Enh Dis Prem (EDP) is automatic, once ESA IR has been awarded from whatever date ESA IR is awarded from. So you do not have to ask for it.

    You can put in the additional Information, that you have been recently advised that you should have had an ESA3 sent to you at migration from IB, as this never happened you have now requested an ESA3 and that is why you are requesting backdating to the point of migration.

    Do you know what date your ESA started?

    Hi Epitome

    I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to the ESA today and the very nice lady told me that there was no note to say that any ESA3 form had ever been sent.
    She is sending me one out and I can back date it to 2012.
    Originally posted by butterflies56
    She told you....that bit in bold?
    Last edited by epitome; 20-09-2017 at 8:44 PM.
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 20th Sep 17, 9:38 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    butterflies56
    Hi Epitome
    Thank you for answering my questions again.

    Yes I have the letter/date when I first was first migrated from IB/ESA contr based support group.

    I asked her the first 2 questions you highlighted in bold.

    She checked and could find no notes or reference to an ESA3 ever being sent to me.

    She was explaining about how I could fill in the ESA3 to get ESA IR and how that would start the EDP.

    She said put on the date you wish to start the claim from and I said I wanted to back date it to the date of the migration from IB to ESA in 2012 and she said that you can backdate the form to 2012 and I left it at that.
    She was great in the way that she did answer my questions once I asked them!

    If it hadn't have been for your detailed post in the first place I would not have known what questions to ask to get the correct information.

    I will trail through the 55pages of the form and get it sent off and will come back to update on what happens going forward.

    Thanks again for all your help
    • epitome
    • By epitome 21st Sep 17, 8:22 PM
    • 3,022 Posts
    • 1,836 Thanks
    epitome
    If possible, you can ask for an appointment at the local Jobcentre to have the form scanned to ESA. then you or someone else, can take it to the appointment for scanning.

    It is the best way of returning the form, otherwise you could be chasing your posted form for weeks.

    To get the appointment -when the form is ready, either call ESA again...or call the Jobcentre 0345 604 3719, or walk into the jobcentre and ask them in person (but they may not book it for you in person, they are supposed to, but they may not.)


    Oh and you must return the ESA3 within 1 month of the call, but really as soon as possible.. and that is why I recommend the jobcentre appointment for scanning.
    • butterflies56
    • By butterflies56 30th Nov 17, 3:41 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    butterflies56
    Further update on esa edp saga!
    Hi everyone
    Just another update to let people know what has happened so far...

    Week 1
    Sent ESA3 form 2nd class signed for Recorded Delivery and received a text 5days later
    saying they had received the form and I would hear from them within 2weeks.

    Week 7
    I decided to leave it a good few weeks before contacting them by phone to see how the claim was progressing.
    I got a call back telling me that my claim was being dealt with by a Specialist Team and they would send an email to see where they were with the claim.

    Week 9
    I was paid my first Enhanced Disability Premium today of £15.90 x 2.

    I also received a letter from DWP that does not show the additional premium or any reference to it. But has some convoluted sentences about IR ESA and CB ESA. My word whoever writes this stuff must be on some good stuff!!

    So I rang ESA again and they said that they are still assessing the claim regarding backdating to 2012. They said that it could take another 9weeks to sort it out.

    In the meantime I have checked back through all my housing and council tax benefit letters to January 2013 to Feb 2017 and each one mentions... "because you are receiving Enhanced Disability Premium" then EDP amount for the year.

    So it appears that the DWP/ESA must have let the HB/CT Benefits know that I was entitled to the EDP even though I have never actually been paid the EDP direct to me along with ESA?....

    Thanks everyone
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