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  • FIRST POST
    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 16th Sep 17, 8:55 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 27Thanks
    Old lady 7
    Wading through treacle
    • #1
    • 16th Sep 17, 8:55 PM
    Wading through treacle 16th Sep 17 at 8:55 PM
    I have read lots of posts and struggle to find one similar to my own problem.

    Every couple of months I have to call at a local pharmacy to collect a large box of drugs/medication for work. The pharmacy is on the corner of a main road and a road crosses this road. One side is Council owned and apparently (though I didn't realise it) the other side is private. Along one side of this short road are walls and railings surrounding the car park of a local accountants. There was a notice attached to the railings saying words to the effect that it was private parking and over several years I have always thought this meant the car park not the road.( Several other notices have now appeared on the wall and railings surrounding the car park.) I stopped for as long as it took me to get out of my car, walk into the pharmacy and collect the box of medication and put it in my car. They have a small car park but as I am only 5 ft tall and the box is usually large I parked a few steps from the entrance collected the box and put it in my car. Some while later I received invoice from PCM with a photo of my car and asking for 100.00. This was followed by other letters from debt collector and Gladstones. I thought it was some sort of scam as the letters were never signed and set deadlines to pay before the letter was even received so did not answer. I have now received a small claims court letter and have asked for it to be heard locally. My defence is truthfully that I thought the notice referred to the car park and not the side road. I had just assumed it was a public road like the other stretch of the same road. (If this makes sense). 260.00 seems an awful lot to stop my car for a few minutes. I feel it is really unfair as if I have done wrong it was not by intention. Is this a good enough defence? I feel bamboozled by all this. I am articulate and not afraid to go the court but what should my defence be if the truth does not constitute a defence. I feel that if I lost I could not bring myself to pay more than a token amount. My credit rating does not matter; as an oder woman I have no mortgage , loans etc and the only credit I have is my mobile! HELP!
Page 1
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 16th Sep 17, 9:00 PM
    • 7,770 Posts
    • 7,867 Thanks
    pogofish
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:00 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:00 PM
    I have read lots of posts and struggle to find one similar to my own problem.
    Originally posted by Old lady 7
    Post One of the Newbies Sticky outlines your problem exactly!

    And if you are at the Debt-knuckledragger stage, then you need to read and act-on the advice in Post Four, strictly!

    Then it goes-on to inform you about the current situation and lay-out your options for seeing it-off.

    Please read it carefully.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Sep 17, 10:57 PM
    • 16,504 Posts
    • 20,667 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 17, 10:57 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 17, 10:57 PM
    is this an LBC or is it an MCOL ?

    if its an MCOL, have you completed the AOS online on the CCBC website ?

    if you have , it extends the period to submit a defence to 28 days instead of 14 days , in which case draft your defence asap (see post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:12 PM
    Some while later I received invoice from PCM with a photo of my car and asking for 100.00. I thought it was some sort of scam
    So do we, that's why we are here. Look:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/214269665-Hayes-and-Harlington-Station-Roboclaim

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/heath-parade-graham-park-way-scam-site.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/pcm-lose-heath-parade-claim.html

    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?89170-***WON-WON-WON***-Parking-Control-Management-at-Heath-Parade-NW9
    I have now received a small claims court letter and have asked for it to be heard locally. My defence is truthfully that I thought the notice referred to the car park and not the side road. I had just assumed it was a public road like the other stretch of the same road. (If this makes sense). 260.00 seems an awful lot to stop my car for a few minutes. I feel it is really unfair as if I have done wrong it was not by intention. Is this a good enough defence?
    Not really, you really missed a trick by not researching this BEFORE defending the claim, but you can't add to it now. You really should have waded through the treacle MUCH earlier. What did you actually put in the defence box?

    You need to read the NEWBIES thread post #2 about defence stage and what happens when. Gladstones next letter encloses a misleading form and tells you it can be 'heard on the papers'. Don't go agreeing to that, don't tick yes to mediation on the N180 form the court sends to you, either. You really do need to read the links in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to be better prepared, and hope for a decent Judge who can smell a scam/who knows about parking firms' trash.

    Which scam site is it?

    Which court is your local court where it will be allocated to?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-09-2017 at 11:15 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 17th Sep 17, 8:52 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:52 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:52 AM
    Thanks for replies. My local court is Grimsby N.E. Lincs. I am not that good on computers and struggle with LBC, MCOL etc. I did not agree to mediation or agree for it to be hard on the papers so at least I got something right. Need to do some reading now?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Sep 17, 9:26 AM
    • 7,376 Posts
    • 6,423 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:26 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:26 AM
    You need to put out of you mind any concept of what is and is not fair. This is a scam, but it is not illegal, and they can and do win in court if you do not use the correct legal arguments.

    Read about signs, contracts, codes of practice, keeper liability, planning consents, forget "fair",
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 17, 1:00 PM
    Thanks for replies. My local court is Grimsby N.E. Lincs. I am not that good on computers and struggle with LBC, MCOL etc. I did not agree to mediation or agree for it to be hard on the papers so at least I got something right. Need to do some reading now?
    Originally posted by Old lady 7
    Do you have a record of your exact defence, as we need to know what you can build on.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 21st Sep 17, 6:49 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 17, 6:49 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 17, 6:49 PM
    Have received Notice of Allocation to small claims court with date for hearing. Says I have to give statement at least 21 days before hearing. I dug out the letters from CPM, Gladstones etc. and notice they have given the wrong road name! The main road in Grimsby is called Dudley Street. The road that crosses it is called Pelham Road at one side and Princes Avenue at the other. I stopped at the side named Princes Avenue and all the paperwork from CPM, Gladstones etc say Pelham Road. I have printed up to date a map from Google which has both roads clearly
    marked out. Where does this leave me please?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 21st Sep 17, 7:25 PM
    • 33,243 Posts
    • 17,186 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 21st Sep 17, 7:25 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Sep 17, 7:25 PM
    As you have been advised, you cannot now add to your submitted defence (the "statement" they now require is your witness statement)


    Can you let us know what that submitted defence was (as requested already in #7)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 17, 11:49 PM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I agree, let's see the defence.

    You know where the evidence you have found can be used, because you've read the NEWBIES thread advice on defences and what happens next, so the evidence will be with your Witness statement. It sounds great - let's hope it fits with your defence though?

    We need to see what your defence said, please.

    We need to know what you can and can't build upon. Because if your defence said 'I didn't see any signs and I think this is a scam' or 'I want to defend this because it's extortionate' then you can't really argue ''wrong street'' in your WS.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 22nd Sep 17, 3:55 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    I have filled in any forms sent but not a defence. I thought the statement they are requesting is the defence! I am so confused with it all. the letter from the local court also states "Unless the claimant does by 4pm on 5th October pay to the court the trial fee of 55.00or file a properly completed application(i.e. one which provides all the required information in the manner requested) for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 5th October without further order and unless the court orders otherwise, you will also be liable for the costs which the defendant has incurred")
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Sep 17, 3:59 PM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You had a claim form.

    What did you put in the defence box?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 22nd Sep 17, 4:22 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    safarmuk
    What did you put in the defence box?
    We asked this in #7 and #9 - the OP hasn't told us yet but really needs to or we can't really help to see what can be built on in her WS.
    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 22nd Sep 17, 10:21 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    I left that box blank. Think I read somewhere that I should. I wish there was a key to all the acronyms used as I'm struggling to know what they mean apart from WS.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 22nd Sep 17, 10:30 PM
    • 2,088 Posts
    • 2,501 Thanks
    waamo
    I wish there was a key to all the acronyms used as I'm struggling to know what they mean apart from WS.
    Do you mean something like this that is in the Newbies thread?

    Some forum acronyms explained (REMEMBER THAT SOME OF THESE WILL NOT MEAN ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM)

    AOS = Approved Operator Scheme of an Accredited Trade Association such as the BPA (or the new one, the IPC). Only AOS members can get DVLA data.

    BPA = British Parking Association, merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain).

    IAS = a 2nd stage 'SO CALLED independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales for IPC AOS members only. Pointless.

    IPC = International Parking Community - merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain). Forget their so-called independent appeal stage of IAS in most cases, shockingly rude and arrogant bullyboy (allegedly biased) decisions have been reported.

    LBCCC/LBC/LBA = Letter Before County Court Claim/Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action. DO NOT IGNORE IT. How to respond.

    MCOL = Money Claim Online.

    NTK = Notice to Keeper which should be the first letter sent to the registered keeper. See below for how to appeal if in England/Wales.

    PPC = our forum shorthand only, for 'private parking company'.

    POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (specifically Schedule 4 as linked below). England/Wales ONLY.

    POPLA = Parking on Private Land Appeals - a 2nd stage 'independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales and for BPA AOS members only. Sometimes found to be awful in 2016 so you do have to cover all bases first time, in your POPLA appeal.

    WS = Witness Statement. See post #2. If you have a claim, you must file a Witness Statement (and your evidence and exhibits) before the hearing, as well as the initial defence statement.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Sep 17, 12:38 AM
    • 51,504 Posts
    • 65,107 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I wish there was a key to all the acronyms used
    Originally posted by Old lady 7
    Good joke!


    I left that box blank. Think I read somewhere that I should.
    Originally posted by Old lady 7
    Well yes, when you ACKNOWLEDGED the claim.

    But what did you then submit within 28 days, as your defence, or are you still within that time - what date is on the top of the claim form?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-09-2017 at 12:41 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 23rd Sep 17, 9:01 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    Don't remember being asked for a defence apart from the little box on original court letter. The latest with the court date (27th October) asks for statement to be submitted 21 days prior.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 23rd Sep 17, 9:53 AM
    • 33,243 Posts
    • 17,186 Thanks
    Quentin
    As previously advised that request is not for your defence, but your WS

    The original court docs would have a form for submitting your defence

    As you look to be a little confused about all this maybe see if a friend/ relative can go through your paperwork with you, alternatively the cab will have someone to assist over explaining the court process to you and will go through the paperwork with you, though don't ask their advice on how to defend this!
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 23rd Sep 17, 10:09 AM
    • 2,135 Posts
    • 6,186 Thanks
    bargepole
    I'm afraid that 'wading through treacle' is exactly what trying to make sense of this thread is like.

    It's obviously a defended claim, otherwise there wouldn't be a hearing date allocated.

    Yet the OP says she doesn't remember filing a defence, or completing the defence form online.

    I can only see this ending one way. Badly.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 29. Lost 9.
    • Old lady 7
    • By Old lady 7 23rd Sep 17, 10:13 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Old lady 7
    Hey - I'm not stupid! I am frazzled because I work full time and long hours!
    Have once again looked through papers and the letter of allocation from court says I have submitted a defence! Well apart from the little box on original court letter I have definitely not sent in a defence.
    I have not discarded any of the paperwork. Because I thought I may have overlooked something I got my son (Cambridge graduate) to go through it all and he confirms this. This is why I am confused.
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