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  • FIRST POST
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 16th Sep 17, 6:50 PM
    • 2,228Posts
    • 448Thanks
    oldwiring
    Looks too good to be true
    • #1
    • 16th Sep 17, 6:50 PM
    Looks too good to be true 16th Sep 17 at 6:50 PM
    http://securedbonds.co.uk/energy-bonds/

    What's the catch?
Page 1
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 16th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
    • 3,957 Thanks
    ColdIron
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:01 PM
    It's not a savings product and you could lose 100% of your capital
    • ChesterDog
    • By ChesterDog 16th Sep 17, 7:13 PM
    • 772 Posts
    • 1,334 Thanks
    ChesterDog
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:13 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:13 PM
    FCA regulated does not mean FSCS covered.

    Asset-backed and guaranteed are meaningless when push comes to shove.

    A corporate mini-bond is high risk and not easily disposed of or resold.

    The government guarantees income to the sector or company for twenty years (unless it changes its mind), but not to you.

    All your money is at risk.
    I am one of the "Dogs of the Index".
    • fwor
    • By fwor 16th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    • 5,860 Posts
    • 3,918 Thanks
    fwor
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    Have you read the Terms and Conditions on their website? Here's an extract:

    "The information within this site is issued by Bovarius Ltd, Company number: 10336033.

    Bovarius Ltd.
    Cambridge House
    27 Cambridge Park
    London
    E11 2PU

    to Sophisticated and/or High Net Worth individual investors who are professional clients or eligible counterparties under the Rules of the United Kingdom Financial Conduct Authority ("FCA")The information within this site is unsuitable for any other party who should exit the Website immediately. If you are unsure as to whether or not you qualify, please contact Cantrell's."
    The text looks very much like it's been copied from the Terms and Conditions of another investment company - Cantrell's. So much so that you can even see that they forgot to edit out Cantrell's name and put in their own!

    It makes you wonder - if they take that much care with their own website, how much care are they going to take with your money?

    The website was also registered less than 6 months ago, the registrant is hidden behind a "privacy service" and the site appears to be operating from a shared server in Germany. None of these are signs that would cause me to entrust any money to them.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 16th Sep 17, 7:32 PM
    • 3,378 Posts
    • 3,957 Thanks
    ColdIron
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:32 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:32 PM
    I like this extract

    In addition by declaring this statement I may lose significant rights and I may have no right to complain to either of the following: the Financial Services Authority; or- the Financial Ombudsman Scheme. I may have no right to seek compensation from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. I understand that I can lose my property and other assets from making investment decisions based on financial promotions
    • fwor
    • By fwor 16th Sep 17, 7:52 PM
    • 5,860 Posts
    • 3,918 Thanks
    fwor
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:52 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 17, 7:52 PM
    Is the Feefo 5.0/5 "Independent Review" score at the top of the home page genuine?

    I went onto Feefo's website and checked "Bovarius", "Secured Bonds" and "Securedbonds" in their Money category, and no reviews were found...

    Also, the GlobalSign "SSL secured" stamp on the "Enquire Now" form is irrelevant, because the enquiry form doesn't use SSL!

    It does make you wonder about the TrustPilot 5 star stamp on the same form. Surely they wouldn't ~dare~ to fake one of those???
    Last edited by fwor; 16-09-2017 at 8:00 PM.
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 16th Sep 17, 8:54 PM
    • 2,228 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 8:54 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 8:54 PM
    I wouldn't have touched it. It was odoriferous, but you guys have really shown how worthless (crooked?)review sites like Trustpilot are.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 16th Sep 17, 9:21 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 138 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:21 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:21 PM
    Companies House has several hundred companies based at that 27 Cambridge Park address - must be a big office.

    Frankly if you put money into this scheme there are scientists who would want to examine your brain.

    If it's not a scam then it's trying hard to look like one!
    Last edited by Alexland; 16-09-2017 at 9:30 PM.
    • binaryuniverse
    • By binaryuniverse 16th Sep 17, 11:41 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    binaryuniverse
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:41 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:41 PM
    I wouldn't have touched it. It was odoriferous, but you guys have really shown how worthless (crooked?)review sites like Trustpilot are.
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    Just because there is a picture claiming 5 stars on Trustpilot, doesn't mean it is actually on Trustpilot. Anybody can knock up an image and stick on a website. The fact you can not click on the image and go to the 'reviews' (as they don't exist) speaks volumes. In other words, yes, they have faked it.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th Sep 17, 6:19 AM
    • 7,255 Posts
    • 7,777 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I wouldn't have touched it. It was odoriferous, but you guys have really shown how worthless (crooked?)review sites like Trustpilot are.
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    If it's a fake statement and it's not actually on TP, to criticise TP is wholly illogical.
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 17th Sep 17, 9:10 AM
    • 908 Posts
    • 986 Thanks
    Uxb
    On TP generally have a read from 2015
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5197536
    Basically companies managing to get bad reviews removed from TP based on some form of technicalities to make the review "inadmissible"

    About 5 years a aviation forum had a long thread on this very practice about one particular supplier who was doing this on TP: so getting wonderful reviews only posted, the bad ones "vanished" while at the same time singularly failing to deliver the goods. I suppose they never had the brain capacity to think that being a niche sector those outraged would be posting on such forums and word would get around real quick.

    Then there is the problem of reviews posted on all such sites which are actually totally fake.

    No idea whether now TP is any better, but based on what i've read over the last few years I'd not believe a word I saw on the site.
    • oldwiring
    • By oldwiring 17th Sep 17, 10:57 AM
    • 2,228 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    oldwiring
    If it's a fake statement and it's not actually on TP, to criticise TP is wholly illogical.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    But having not clicked on the TrustPilot link, there's no illogicality in my expressed thoughts. From other encounters with their reviews I would say the site would be one I rushed to anyway.
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 17th Sep 17, 11:38 AM
    • 553 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    Looks too good to be true
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    Fixed that for you!

    If you're willing to take some risk, you could get better than 9% by investing in P2P - with the added benefits of not being tied to a 5 year term, being able to diversify between several loan parts, and not having the high minimum buy-in of £5000.
    I work for a UK bank, but any comments made on this forum are solely my personal opinion. Caveat Emptor!
    • TheTracker
    • By TheTracker 17th Sep 17, 12:23 PM
    • 1,116 Posts
    • 1,109 Thanks
    TheTracker
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    Look no further.... this could happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jan/29/investors-lose-millions-bond-company-administration
    Last edited by TheTracker; 17-09-2017 at 12:26 PM.
    • binaryuniverse
    • By binaryuniverse 17th Sep 17, 7:00 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    binaryuniverse
    But having not clicked on the TrustPilot link, there's no illogicality in my expressed thoughts. From other encounters with their reviews I would say the site would be one I rushed to anyway.
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    There isn't a Trustpilot link for you to click on. There are no Trustpilot reviews. To say your view has no illogicality because you haven't explored the avenues is illogical in itself. The logical course of action would be to check the Trustpilot site itself and search for reviews there.

    No idea whether now TP is any better, but based on what i've read over the last few years I'd not believe a word I saw on the site.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    But you haven't seen any words, from Trustpilot, on that site. Not in the one the OP linked to anyway.
    • Superscrooge
    • By Superscrooge 17th Sep 17, 7:44 PM
    • 854 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    Superscrooge
    Trustpilot Reviews- Not to be trusted!
    On TP generally have a read from 2015
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5197536
    Basically companies managing to get bad reviews removed from TP based on some form of technicalities to make the review "inadmissible"

    About 5 years a aviation forum had a long thread on this very practice about one particular supplier who was doing this on TP: so getting wonderful reviews only posted, the bad ones "vanished" while at the same time singularly failing to deliver the goods. I suppose they never had the brain capacity to think that being a niche sector those outraged would be posting on such forums and word would get around real quick.

    Then there is the problem of reviews posted on all such sites which are actually totally fake.

    No idea whether now TP is any better, but based on what i've read over the last few years I'd not believe a word I saw on the site.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    The above post is very true.

    Two years ago I got ripped off by a dodgy airport car parking firm which had glowing reviews on Trustpilot .

    I managed to get a refund via my credit card and posted a highly critical review on trustpilot. But the company kept objecting and trustpilot kept removing my review.

    It made me realise just how easy it is for companies to manipulate reviews on Trustpilot.
  • jamesd
    What's the catch?
    Originally posted by oldwiring
    Assuming it's not a fraudulent clone of another site, which the copied and pasted text implies, you can get higher rates on secured lending than that via peer to peer lending via places like Ablrate, Collateral and MoneyThing, so why bother? Those three and many other P2P places also have secondary markets so you can sell before the end of the loan term if you like, subject to there being a buyer, which there normally is in decent time if a loan isn't known to be in trouble already.

    Also note that it says that "their facilities process used cooking oil into bio-diesel", past tense, and doesn't say what it does today.

    Priority of charges can also be a factor. You can have a third or fourth ranking charge on say a house and it'll probably be worthless in a sale because the first and second and maybe third charge holders will get all the proceeds of the sale, not you.
    Last edited by jamesd; 17-09-2017 at 11:27 PM.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 17th Sep 17, 10:31 PM
    • 6,708 Posts
    • 11,912 Thanks
    bowlhead99

    Also note that it says that "their facilities process used cooking oil into bio-diesel", past tense, and doesn't say what it does today.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    This is surely just you going a bit 'try-hard' on attempting to come up with things to discredit them and your reading comprehension is a bit off because it's late at the end of a weekend

    Read the sentence again.
    - They say that they have facilities which process something into biodiesel

    - The thing that they process into biodiesel is cooking oil

    - The type of cooking oil which they process into biodiesel is not 'fresh, unused' cooking oil - it is 'used' cooking oil that someone has already cooked with.

    As a consequence, they are saying
    - our facilities (facilities that we own or operate)
    - process (present tense for what the facilities do)
    - "used cooking oil" (cooking oil that has been used for cooking)
    - into biodiesel (the end product of the process)

    They are not saying "we used to process cooking oil, but we're not telling you what we process now".

    I have no comment on whether their biodiesel factory exists or whether the investment deal is good or bad. I imagine it is bad if it is on a misleading website as others pointed out. Just a bit of a flaw in your reading.
  • jamesd
    You're right, I did misread that.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 18th Sep 17, 7:40 AM
    • 7,255 Posts
    • 7,777 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    The above post is very true.

    Two years ago I got ripped off by a dodgy airport car parking firm which had glowing reviews on Trustpilot .

    I managed to get a refund via my credit card and posted a highly critical review on trustpilot. But the company kept objecting and trustpilot kept removing my review.

    It made me realise just how easy it is for companies to manipulate reviews on Trustpilot.
    Originally posted by Superscrooge
    I'm sure all that's true. It's nothing to do with the illogical position that because someone fakes "X", X is therefore faulty. Let's say that aspirin fixes headaches. And you find some fake aspirin. Your position is that this fake aspirin proves that aspirin doesn't fix headaches.
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