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  • FIRST POST
    • Mrs p
    • By Mrs p 15th Sep 17, 10:35 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Mrs p
    A question for Jobseekers.
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:35 PM
    A question for Jobseekers. 15th Sep 17 at 10:35 PM
    This is a genuine question from a Universal Credit Work coach.
    I have worked in the benefits system for the last twenty years and as such have seen a number of governments come and go I have also been the recipient of benefit twice in my adult life so am no stranger to making ends meet, 7p tins of beans and boiling eggs in the kettle?

    My question is how would you pay people between jobs
    Ensure its paid correctly?
    Support people who need extra help?
    Genuinely interested in how we can do this better?
    Last edited by Mrs p; 15-09-2017 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Spelling
Page 1
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    • 30,289 Posts
    • 19,160 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    This is a genuine question from a Universal Credit Work coach.
    I have worked in the benefits system for the last twenty years and as such have seen a number of governments come and go, all of whom have had an agenda one way or another but I have never seen people so decided since the Thatcher era and I would ask those of you who are interested an overlooking for work whilst in receipt of benefit the following questions:
    1. Do you think that you should be doing something to find work to receive benefits?
    2. Do you think that you should provide evidence that you are looking for work?
    3. As Tax payers should
    Originally posted by Mrs p
    1 Yes why shouldnt those who receive benefits look for work, i dont get paid to do naff all at work, if I did questions would be asked.

    2 No harm in evidence being asked for, its fair evidence is asked for.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • sjbrun
    • By sjbrun 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    • 421 Posts
    • 403 Thanks
    sjbrun
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:54 PM
    Isn't it for times like that you put some of your salary into a savings account every month?
    • ariarnia
    • By ariarnia 16th Sep 17, 2:08 AM
    • 1,577 Posts
    • 4,465 Thanks
    ariarnia
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 2:08 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Sep 17, 2:08 AM
    Isn't it for times like that you put some of your salary into a savings account every month?
    Originally posted by sjbrun
    That's an interesting point given I understand in some countries (in Europe such as Denmark and Sweden) unemployment insurance or unions paying unemployment allowances for members is both common and effective.

    As is that benefit being stopped if you refuse a job you're capable of doing and that benefit only being paid for a fixed period based on how long you've paid in (with people generally finding work before the limit is reached).

    Mentioning that it's in the Scandinavian countries as they're generally held up as the liberal/socialist ideal.

    Also interesting how your questions completely changed between edits:

    1. Do you think that you should be doing something to find work to receive benefits?
    2. Do you think that you should provide evidence that you are looking for work?
    3. As Tax payers should
    My question is how would you pay people between jobs
    Ensure its paid correctly?
    Support people who need extra help?
    Genuinely interested in how we can do this better?
    Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott

    It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 16th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
    • 1,300 Posts
    • 1,323 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:02 AM
    I would toughen up things a lot! I'd make it a condition of receiving unemployment benefits that recipients have to earn their money. Get up maybe 2 days a week, meet at a designated place then go and clean the streets, collect rubbish, serve in a charity shop, do activities for old folks, walk rescue dogs etc. That would sort the genuine job seekers from the can't be bothered to work. Because so many wouldn't turn up, the money could be raised to a decent hourly rate for those who do. They would then benefit from being able to add skills on their CVS and try out work they maybe hadn't considered.
    People have to want to help themselves. I see CVS that are totally rubbish. These people are either taking the mick or need help to improve them. Compulsory sessions where people are supported to improve interview skills etc. If you don't attend you don't get paid.
    Hey failing this bring back work houses!
    I've claimed unemployment once but accepted any work until I found a proper job. Many people won't, as this country has created job snobbery. People feel its below them to do certain tasks so they would rather sign on.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 16th Sep 17, 9:13 AM
    • 6,317 Posts
    • 4,841 Thanks
    ohreally
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:13 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:13 AM
    You're being at best disingenuous given your completely different post edit and your excuse for the edit "Last edited by Mrs p; Yesterday at 10:52 PM. Reason: Spelling".

    Perhaps your typical of the individuals known as job coaches!
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:30 AM
    And here come the benefit bashers. There are many people on benefits who work. Universal credit is an in work benefit and even those who aren't in work and on uc have to do up to a 35 hour a week job search

    And evidence that they have done so. I know people on uc who volunteer 30 hours a week.

    Numerous people on uc work part time.

    I'm really not sure given that
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 9:38 AM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:38 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:38 AM
    Given that councils deal with rubbish collection in most areas that people would be allowed to go litter picking.

    But I can assure you that people on uc don't do naff all for their benefits.

    And a real work coach would know that people on uc have to jobsearch and evidence that they are doing so.

    Clear that some of the people on this thread know zero about current benefits and the conditions attached to getting them. Or how many people claiming in work benefits like UC work or volunteer
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 16th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    • 822 Posts
    • 1,883 Thanks
    nicechap
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    Another troll post - the difference between the quoted post by DCFC79 is so massive its clear the OP is neither a genuine job coach or asking real questions.
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
    • 1,273 Posts
    • 1,185 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Whats up with the question changes?

    This is NOT what I saw last night

    I smell a troll
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 16th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • 251 Posts
    • 204 Thanks
    Stylehutz
    I would toughen up things a lot! I'd make it a condition of receiving unemployment benefits that recipients have to earn their money. Get up maybe 2 days a week, meet at a designated place then go and clean the streets, collect rubbish, serve in a charity shop, do activities for old folks, walk rescue dogs etc. That would sort the genuine job seekers from the can't be bothered to work. Because so many wouldn't turn up.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    Wouldnt it just be a better idea to scrap Jsa completely. Just let all those people who have just Lost their jobs fend for themselves whilst you sip on your cappucinho reading your Daily Mail.
    • ariarnia
    • By ariarnia 16th Sep 17, 1:34 PM
    • 1,577 Posts
    • 4,465 Thanks
    ariarnia
    And here come the benefit bashers. There are many people on benefits who work. Universal credit is an in work benefit and even those who aren't in work and on uc have to do up to a 35 hour a week job search

    And evidence that they have done so. I know people on uc who volunteer 30 hours a week.

    Numerous people on uc work part time.

    I'm really not sure given that
    Originally posted by annandale
    The original OP was asking specifically about the unemployed and what the individual should have to do to prove/earn the benefit. Nothing to do with in work benefits, hence my response.

    Personally, there shouldn't be ANY in work benefits (other than possibly an apprenticeship allowance for in work training/college release). If someone can't afford to live on the wage they're being paid employers wouldn't be able to recruit.
    Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott

    It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 2:19 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    Universal credit gets reduced by 63 p in every pound if someone is working. And it will reduce to zero if someone earns enough.

    The basic uc is 250 pounds a month. 317 if someone is over 25. If everyone could afford to live on the wage they were being paid no one would ever claim working tax credits. Or universal credit

    There are millions of people who claim in work benefit's to top up poor pay.

    The minimum wage for some people depending on age is less than five pounds an hour.
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 2:22 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    People who are on uc are counted in the unemployment figures. Unless you earn 35 hours a week times min wage and you are on uc you have to see a work coach and have job search requirements.

    Even someone on uc who isnt working at all has to do 35 hours a week jobsewrch
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 2:36 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    Job search. And be able to evidence this. Its not easy as you seem to suggest. And your comments about people not turning up raising the benefits for others. Nonsense. That would never happen.

    It's clear from your comments that you know nothing about being a job seeker

    There are people on zero hours contracts who might get two hours one week and ten the next

    According to you these people shouldn't be able to claim benefits to top up their wages?

    Some people only take jobs because WTC tops them up.

    Maybe if you currently worked at 16 hours a week you might get that.

    Doubt it though. My original post was to the person spoke about workhouses.

    But clearly you have your views on poverty and the unrmployed.

    Anyway must dash. Chimney to sweep and litter to pick
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 16th Sep 17, 3:06 PM
    • 9,921 Posts
    • 7,992 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    In answer to one of your original questions, since deleted.

    To be entitled to benefits, claimants should get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before they go to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day in a mill or coalmine , and pay the mill or mine owner for permission to come to work, and when they get home, their family must kill them and dance about on their graves singing Hallelujah.

    That would sort the scroungers out!!
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    I'm on universal credit. If I don't work I get 317 a month. If I do work I get my wages then for every pound I earn 63p is deducted from my universal credit.

    If you are in a situation where you work zero hours and are being offered 4-8 hours a week min wage as I was last year if you don't get any top up you are living below what the govt says you should be living on. People have always been allowed to work and claim benefits.

    Years ago I worked part time and claimed JSA. I declared my earnings and kept five pounds plus my benefit.

    Five years ago I worked 9 hours a week and I was on min wage. Which was 6.50 at the time. i stayed on jsa until I got 13 hours and signed off.

    It is nonsensical to say there shouldn't be a top up because on the one hand people are being condemned for being lazy. But told that people shouldn't get top up benefits ruling them out of part time work.

    So it's better to sit and do nothing and sign on and pick litter than it is to work part time and claim uc or jsa?

    People on jsa are being forced to move over to uc anyway. And as I said above it's not just sitting doing zero. You have to do up to 35 hours a week jobsearch depending on whether you volunteer or work as well.

    It's not the same as just turning up and signing your name once a fortnight. Nothing like it.
    • annandale
    • By annandale 16th Sep 17, 5:53 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    annandale
    I've done loads of voluntary work over the years. I've worked with people who have suffered abuse. I've volunteered for sacro. I've worked in the Red Cross.

    I'm currently volunteering online giving advice to people who are new to universal credit and want questions answered.

    I have a degree, two post grads. I'm a qualified PT. I have my sia badge.

    Most of the work I've done over the last year has been zero hours. And during the summer it's more or less full time.

    Other times it's 4-8 hours a week.

    Do people honestly think that people who are motivated to volunteer in times where they aren't working full time really need to be told that they should go out and litter pick two days a week to get their benefit?

    It's hard enough out there as it is without someone piping up that they'd have people out sweeping streets!

    Oh and by the way. Some people are made to go into schemes where they work for their benefit.

    I was working for a gym last year who take all their staff on on self employed contracts. You have to pay them a licence fee of 240 yearly.

    The only money you get is if people take out personal training. Which is optional.

    One lad made 60 pounds in six months.

    This is the sort of work practices people are up against. But instead of employers being criticised for paying poor wages.

    It's the fault of the person working in that job.

    There were reports that some self employed workers for deliveroo were making two pounds an hour.

    It's shameful. Don't tar everyone who is unemployed with the lazy brush because it's not true.
    • ariarnia
    • By ariarnia 16th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    • 1,577 Posts
    • 4,465 Thanks
    ariarnia
    It is nonsensical to say there shouldn't be a top up because on the one hand people are being condemned for being lazy. But told that people shouldn't get top up benefits ruling them out of part time work.

    So it's better to sit and do nothing and sign on and pick litter than it is to work part time and claim uc or jsa?
    Originally posted by annandale
    IMO Yes.

    I would rather job seekers received benefits for not working than businesses received subsidies to pay unliveable wages.

    I think the only 'in work benefit' should be any interim payments needed to support someone who's just accepted a job until they get their first pay check (paying for work clothes, travel permit and receiving the normal JSA/LHA/CTR payment every two weeks until the first payday)

    BUT I think job seekers should receive no money if they turn down a job that they can do (like the old job shops).

    I have a degree, two post grads. I'm a qualified PT. I have my sia badge.
    Originally posted by annandale
    And in all that education they didn't teach you how to use paragraphs or structure an argument? What has the education system come to?
    Last edited by ariarnia; 16-09-2017 at 6:10 PM.
    Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott

    It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Sep 17, 6:42 PM
    • 1,273 Posts
    • 1,185 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Gotta love this side of the forum, guaranteed argument even when we all know its a troll thread.
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