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  • FIRST POST
    • park_ranger
    • By park_ranger 15th Sep 17, 1:50 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 1Thanks
    park_ranger
    where are Indigo's terms and conditions?
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 17, 1:50 PM
    where are Indigo's terms and conditions? 15th Sep 17 at 1:50 PM
    I'm just starting the appeals process against Indigo for a penalty notice that claimed the driver breached code 7 - "Not parked fully within a marked bay/designated area"
    The car was parked with the inside of one wheel about 10cm over the white bay marking line, the other three wheels were well within the bay.

    The ticket says 'Appeals should be made in accordance with the terms and conditions of parking.

    Does anyone know where these terms and conditions are so that I can make sure I am in accordance with them? The only T&C on their web site are the T&Cs for using their app or their web site.

    Also does anyone know where a definitive list of breach codes may be found?'

    At the station car park there is a sign that refers to bylaw 14 (of what I'm not sure) and it shows several icons, one of which, with a red cross over it, shows a car parked almost diagonally over the line between two bays next to the words, "You must park within a single authorised parking bay or in a marked authorised area".

    This is not the same wording as the breach code they claim, in particular the word 'fully' is missing from the sign displayed in the car park.
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    • 7,287 Posts
    • 7,438 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 1:55 PM
    At the station car park there is a sign that refers to bylaw 14 (of what I'm not sure) and it shows several icons, one of which, with a red cross over it, shows a car parked almost diagonally over the line between two bays next to the words, "You must park within a single authorised parking bay or in a marked authorised area".

    THAT is not in any bylaw used by train companies , its a term used by indigo , and is $%^&*($ on railway land

    type bylaw in search box , POPLa will not allow bylaw land cases and indigo will pull out rather than pay £27
    • park_ranger
    • By park_ranger 15th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    park_ranger
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    Thanks pappa golf (I notice that you seem to be a a very knowledgeable person here and I appreciate you getting back so quickly).
    I'm not sure what you mean by $%^&*($ but on reading some of the posts about railway land and bylaws the gist of it seems to be that only the railway can issue a penalty notice for breaching a bylaw and not Indigo. Is that right?

    So should my approach be along the lines, as suggested here, to give the minimum info in an appeal to Indigo and then go for the POPLA appeal at which point I could raise that as its railway land and they haven't issued a penalty then I've no case to answer - I might also raise the de minimus principle.

    Slightly worried about POPLA's comments about them not accepting new reasons for appeal at the POPLA stage that were not raised at the Indigo appeal stage though. Am I right to be worried?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Sep 17, 2:57 PM
    • 7,287 Posts
    • 7,438 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:57 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:57 PM
    POPLa cannot adjudicate in land that is non relivent to the private parking laws in the UK , they will decline indigo ,

    ONLY the TOC can bring charges (within 6mths) , send your appeal in , I fear that no POPLa code will appear , they will tell the BPA they posted it , its now cat and mouse time , perhaps say very little to indio , dont let them know you understand bylaws , then hit em hard at POPLa , with the first line "RAILWAY BYLAW LAND "
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    • 14,494 Posts
    • 22,787 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:42 PM
    I'm not sure what you mean by $%^&*($
    It's a typo, I don't think his spell checker is working.

    He means 'bollox'.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • park_ranger
    • By park_ranger 15th Sep 17, 4:04 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    park_ranger
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 4:04 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 4:04 PM
    Really appreciate the quick replies but this is all new to me and I don't really understand the subtleties of this.

    When you say "they will decline indigo". do you mean that POPLa will decline to consider an appeal from me because it relates to Ingido and railway land (especially if I don't get a POPLa number from Indigo) or do you mean that POPLa will consider my appeal with or without such a number and will probably uphold my appeal and decline Indigo's claim for a penalty? In which case that's good news.

    I'll have a read though the templates here to see if there is one I understand and that is relevant to my case.

    BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Sep 17, 4:11 PM
    • 3,613 Posts
    • 1,827 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 4:11 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 4:11 PM
    BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?
    Originally posted by park_ranger
    TOC = Train Operating Company.
    .
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Sep 17, 9:05 PM
    • 7,287 Posts
    • 7,438 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 9:05 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 9:05 PM
    Really appreciate the quick replies but this is all new to me and I don't really understand the subtleties of this.

    When you say "they will decline indigo". do you mean that POPLa will decline to consider an appeal from me because it relates to Ingido and railway land (especially if I don't get a POPLa number from Indigo) or do you mean that POPLa will consider my appeal with or without such a number and will probably uphold my appeal and decline Indigo's claim for a penalty? In which case that's good news.

    I'll have a read though the templates here to see if there is one I understand and that is relevant to my case.

    BTW who or what is 'the TOC'?
    Originally posted by park_ranger
    any company legally registered with the BPA or IPC must offer an appeal system run by indipendent , as the land is non relivent an appeal will not be accepted by POPLa ,

    no appeal , no further action

    indigo will push it upto POPLa point then quietly decline in order to save money
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Sep 17, 10:46 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:46 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:46 PM
    Slightly worried about POPLA's comments about them not accepting new reasons for appeal at the POPLA stage that were not raised at the Indigo appeal stage though.
    Ermmm...say what now? That's not true.

    Have you submitted the template appeal for the NEWBIES thread yet, not filling an actual name in the boxes asking who was driving (obviously filling in the name of appellant though!), as covered in all other Indigo threads?

    Does anyone know where these terms and conditions are so that I can make sure I am in accordance with them? The only T&C on their web site are the T&Cs for using their app or their web site.

    Also does anyone know where a definitive list of breach codes may be found?
    No need, none of that matters, just use the template appeal online, and put crosses in the driver's details boxes.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-09-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • park_ranger
    • By park_ranger 16th Sep 17, 2:12 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    park_ranger
    @Coupon mad
    No I haven't done anything yet as I'm waiting for about 25 days to elapse before I send in the
    first appeal to Indigo.

    Re the 'new evidence' bit
    It's in the last two paragraphs on page 7 of the POPLa 2016 annual report (I'm not allowed to post links so have reproduced it below)
    where it clarifies various points with examples.. It gives as an example the case where someone appealed to the operator with one reason but then added another when appealing to POPL. POPLa would not consider the second reason.
    I don't want to give the operator too much info and give them the chance to build a case but at the same time don't want to introduce new stuff at the POPLa stage - for example whether the operator has sufficient interest in the land anyway, or proof that they can legally act for the rtailway.

    ..........

    quote from the POPLa 2016 annual report
    "The operator’s evidence pack will respond to the reasons for appeal provided by the
    appellant. This is one of the reasons we cannot accept new reasons for appeal after the
    initial submission. If we were to do so, the operator would not have had an opportunity to
    respond to the appeal reasons in its evidence pack.
    The opportunity to comment on the evidence pack is therefore in relation to the initial appeal
    reasons. For example, if the reason for appeal was that the signage at the car park was not
    sufficient, and the operator sent pictures of the signs that the motorist did not consider
    accurate, the motorist might want to comment on the evidence and would be able to do so.
    We have seen occasions where an appellant has introduced new reasons for appeal in the
    comments section. For example, the initial reason for appeal is that they were not the driver
    – and when commenting on the evidence pack they say the signage at the car park is not
    sufficiently clear. In such circumstances, we would not consider the new reason for appeal."
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
    • 3,613 Posts
    • 1,827 Thanks
    KeithP
    That quote from the POPLA report is saying that after the initial POPLa appeal, the appellant cannot introduce new appeal reasons when commenting on the PPC's evidence pack.

    Nothing to do with the initial appeal to the PPC.
    .
    • park_ranger
    • By park_ranger 18th Sep 17, 10:01 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    park_ranger
    Ah thank you, I understand now.
    Rather than post on here unnecessary, I'll keep quiet now and wait until nearer my 28 days and maybe get back with a draft appeal to Indigo for someone to cast an eye over.

    Thanks for everyone's help so far,it's most reassuring - especially the 'Don't panic' bits .
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 18th Sep 17, 11:02 AM
    • 3,613 Posts
    • 1,827 Thanks
    KeithP
    Ah thank you, I understand now.
    Rather than post on here unnecessary, I'll keep quiet now and wait until nearer my 28 days and maybe get back with a draft appeal to Indigo for someone to cast an eye over.

    Thanks for everyone's help so far,it's most reassuring - especially the 'Don't panic' bits .
    Originally posted by park_ranger
    No need to get back with a draft appeal.
    At the appropriate time, just send Indigo the blue appeal from the newbies thread as it is.

    It really is that simple.
    All you're doing at this stage is getting a POPLA code from Indigo so that you can send a comprehensive appeal to POPLA.
    .
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