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  • FIRST POST
    • MammyRiley
    • By MammyRiley 15th Sep 17, 2:39 AM
    • 4Posts
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    MammyRiley
    ESA & claiming carer's allowance for 2 people?
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:39 AM
    ESA & claiming carer's allowance for 2 people? 15th Sep 17 at 2:39 AM
    Hi,

    I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding ESA & CA. I'm disabled and get higher rate care and mobility PIP, my husband receives CA for me and we also claim ESA (I'm in the support group).

    My question is, I know CA is a taxable benefit and therefore counts as income, does this affect ESA? I ask as our 10 year old daughter has just been awarded DLA, and I'm wondering if a) my husband could also claim CA for her or can he only claim for the one person, and b) if he can claim for her too, would it mean a reduction in our ESA?

    We are very new to benefits, after my MS quickly deteriorated, we both had to give up our careers, and now our daughter has severe epilepsy and associated learning difficulties. I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to grab anything and everything, I'm just trying to make sure we get what we are entitled to and don't mess up. We live in a tiny villiage, miles from the nearest hospital and even further from the specialist children's hospital my daughter attends; these trips along with equipment we've had to purchase and so on is so expensive. I know I don't really need to explain our circumstances, but we've already had comments from people about the fact we claimed for our daughter, I don't ever want to feel that degraded again. We've both always worked until recently (late 30's & early 40's) and it's been difficult enough without the judgement

    TIA
Page 1
    • MammyRiley
    • By MammyRiley 15th Sep 17, 2:48 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MammyRiley
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:48 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:48 AM
    I just realised I maybe should have added that it's income related esa.
    • _shel
    • By _shel 15th Sep 17, 6:26 AM
    • 1,080 Posts
    • 1,842 Thanks
    _shel
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 6:26 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 17, 6:26 AM
    Hi,

    I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding ESA & CA. I'm disabled and get higher rate care and mobility PIP, my husband receives CA for me and we also claim ESA (I'm in the support group).

    My question is, I know CA is a taxable benefit and therefore counts as income, does this affect ESA? I ask as our 10 year old daughter has just been awarded DLA, and I'm wondering if a) my husband could also claim CA for her or can he only claim for the one person, and b) if he can claim for her too, would it mean a reduction in our ESA?

    We are very new to benefits, after my MS quickly deteriorated, we both had to give up our careers, and now our daughter has severe epilepsy and associated learning difficulties. I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to grab anything and everything, I'm just trying to make sure we get what we are entitled to and don't mess up. We live in a tiny villiage, miles from the nearest hospital and even further from the specialist children's hospital my daughter attends; these trips along with equipment we've had to purchase and so on is so expensive. I know I don't really need to explain our circumstances, but we've already had comments from people about the fact we claimed for our daughter, I don't ever want to feel that degraded again. We've both always worked until recently (late 30's & early 40's) and it's been difficult enough without the judgement

    TIA
    Originally posted by MammyRiley
    A person can only claim carers allowance for one person so no your husband couldn't claim. However you could.
    It would affect income based benefits including tax credits but you get a carers premium on your esa so you would be better off.
    Thanks to everyone who posts competitions
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 15th Sep 17, 7:37 AM
    • 3,454 Posts
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    Icequeen99
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 17, 7:37 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 17, 7:37 AM
    A person can only claim carers allowance for one person so no your husband couldn't claim. However you could.
    It would affect income based benefits including tax credits but you get a carers premium on your esa so you would be better off.
    Originally posted by _shel
    It wouldn't affect tax credits if you remained on income-related ESA and you claimed CA. It would affect tax credits if you weren't on IRESA or income support/IBJSA/guarantee pension credit.

    IQ
    • epitome
    • By epitome 15th Sep 17, 10:06 AM
    • 2,986 Posts
    • 1,818 Thanks
    epitome
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:06 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:06 AM
    Your husband cannot claim CA for two people.

    If you are able to provide care for your daughter, then you can claim CA to care for your daughter.

    If your ESA claim is purely 100% Income Releated, then you would recieve CA @ £62.70 and this would be deducted out of your ESA IR amount (just like your husbands CA is already deducted) You would then have a Carer Premium (CP) £34.95 added for you to your ESA claim (just like you already have 1 CP for your husband on your ESA, you would then have 2 CP on your ESA claim) It effectively means your total benefit amount will rise by £34.95.

    If your ESA is not 100% ESA IR (you may not realise this and should phone to check) there is an award of ESA Conts included in your ESA which is £109.65 a week due to being in Support Group............ Then you can claim CA, but CA will not pay you anything, you will have Underlying entitlement to CA........You will still be paid the CP on your ESA...so your total benefit amount will still rise by £34.95 a week.

    If your husband has PIP or DLA awarded to himself then you need to tell me that so I can advise further, I will need to know what groups he is in.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 15th Sep 17, 10:25 AM
    • 1,686 Posts
    • 3,478 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:25 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:25 AM
    A person can only claim carers allowance for one person so no your husband couldn't claim. However you could.
    It would affect income based benefits including tax credits but you get a carers premium on your esa so you would be better off.
    Originally posted by _shel
    With all respect to MammyRiley, it doesn't sound like she is able to provide the additional care needs her child has.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 15th Sep 17, 11:11 AM
    • 1,552 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 11:11 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 11:11 AM
    Make Tax Credits aware that your daughter has been awarded DLA, as this should entitle her to the disabled child element of CTC:
    https://www.cafamily.org.uk/news-and-media/extra-tax-credit-payments-if-youre-claiming-dla/

    "WHAT IS THE DISABLED CHILD ELEMENT?
    The disabled child element is an extra amount that is added into your child tax credits award. It is worth an extra £60 per week for each child in your family who qualifies.

    WHO QUALIFIES FOR THE DISABLED CHILD ELEMENT?
    You should be getting a disabled child element included in your child tax credit award for each child who is either on DLA or Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or who is registered blind."
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 15th Sep 17, 1:18 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 1:18 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 1:18 PM
    With all respect to MammyRiley, it doesn't sound like she is able to provide the additional care needs her child has.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    The fact that the mother has her own care needs doesn't automatically mean she is unable to help in the care of her daughter. She would need to show that she does have the capability, and a claim would be judged on its own merits.
    • epitome
    • By epitome 15th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    • 2,986 Posts
    • 1,818 Thanks
    epitome
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 8:57 PM
    With all respect to MammyRiley, it doesn't sound like she is able to provide the additional care needs her child has.
    Originally posted by IAmWales

    The fact that the mother has her own care needs doesn't automatically mean she is unable to help in the care of her daughter. She would need to show that she does have the capability, and a claim would be judged on its own merits.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    And, I am no expert in CA, but as it is a child, I believe that care can amount to day time supervision. Just because someone is in the Support Group would not stop them from being able to supervise a child in their house during the day with a phone by their side to call someone like a neighbour or emergency services should something go wrong.
    • MammyRiley
    • By MammyRiley 15th Sep 17, 11:50 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MammyRiley
    Thanks so much for all the replies everyone. We assumed it would be one claim per person for CA, but thought we should probably check just in case.

    My husband isn't on any disibility benefits, we claim ESA as a couple but he's simply my carer. I'm not 100% sure whether the esa is 100% income related, I was just told it wasn't contribution based. In all honesty, I don't even know the difference or why we were put on to IR.

    The most care I can provide for my daughter is supervision, calling for an ambulance, comforting, administering her daily medication and sometimes her emergency medication if she has a seizure. She has most of her seizures in an evening and so shares my bed so I can keep an eye on her. It's difficult because if you add up all the time I spend doing those things, it absolutely amounts to more than 35 hours per week. However it's not care in the way my husband cares for her and I and getting PIP in the first place was such a headache, I don't want to give them anything to question my illness (I.e. 'You're well enough to care for your child, you don't need PIP').

    Why is it all so difficult to understand!!? I'm still trying to figure out why they deduct £62.70 from ESA because my husband claims CA, yet they then add on a £30+ carer's premium?
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 16th Sep 17, 3:22 AM
    • 339 Posts
    • 320 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    With all respect to MammyRiley, it doesn't sound like she is able to provide the additional care needs her child has.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Perhaps it is just me but it seems odd to me that someone who needs care and that care allows for CA to be claimed by her husband could then be able to claim to be a carer for their daughter and also claim CA.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 16th Sep 17, 6:46 AM
    • 1,709 Posts
    • 1,535 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Perhaps it is just me but it seems odd to me that someone who needs care and that care allows for CA to be claimed by her husband could then be able to claim to be a carer for their daughter and also claim CA.
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    Quite possible because if a person is claiming PIP for physical disabilities and the person they're claiming CA for has mental health problems, then it would work. Or vice versa. If a person is claiming CA for the same reasons they're claiming a disability benefit for then it doesn't seem right.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 16th Sep 17, 7:05 AM
    • 16,089 Posts
    • 39,967 Thanks
    FBaby
    The fact that the mother has her own care needs doesn't automatically mean she is unable to help in the care of her daughter. She would need to show that she does have the capability, and a claim would be judged on its own merits.
    Indeed, it isn't automatic that someone on DLA/PIP is forcibly incapable of being a carer to someone else, however, going by this forum, it's seems to be a given that as soon as someone is granted it CA should be claimed for them too.

    CA is the most abused benefit. It's become the 'you get DLA/PIP, I can claim C'A benefit, rather than the 'you get DLA, I am already caring for you 35 hours more than I would if you were not claiming DLA' benefit.

    Her claim wouldn't be judged. These are not scrutinised in any way, and they are not because investigating care is totally subjective, so defending a case in court would be almost impossible, and the cost of doing so would quickly override the benefit, so much easier to just hand it over as a bonus to a DLA claim.

    OP, it sounds like you are having it really bad, so the above is not personal to you. I can understand that going from two jobs to your life revolving around your health and that of your family must be very hard, so not there to judge you. In the end, as the above, if you desperately need the money, you can claim it and you will receive it. Whether you are morally entitled to it, only you know the detail of you circumstances to know if you are.
    Last edited by FBaby; 16-09-2017 at 1:18 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 16th Sep 17, 12:19 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    The wife of a friend of mine has severe medical problems and claims DLA/PIP because of that. They also have two disabled children who the wife provides care for at home. The wife claims CA for one of the children and my friend claims CA for his wife. There is no fiddling of any sort going on. The wife isn't able to mobilise outside the house but adaptations mean she can care for the children fully within the home.
    That's just an example of where somebody can legitimately claim CA as a carer whilst somebody else is also claiming CA for them.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 16th Sep 17, 2:14 PM
    • 1,373 Posts
    • 2,665 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    The wife of a friend of mine has severe medical problems and claims DLA/PIP because of that. They also have two disabled children who the wife provides care for at home. The wife claims CA for one of the children and my friend claims CA for his wife. There is no fiddling of any sort going on. The wife isn't able to mobilise outside the house but adaptations mean she can care for the children fully within the home.
    That's just an example of where somebody can legitimately claim CA as a carer whilst somebody else is also claiming CA for them.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    That doesn't make any sense to me, unless I'm not reading it right.

    To me, it looks like, despite having 'severe medical problems', the wife is perfectly capable of looking after herself and two disabled children so long as they are indoors. Presumably then, the husband claims CA for his wife on the basis that he 'cares' for her for at least 35 hours per week 'outside' the house. Is that what you're saying?
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 16th Sep 17, 3:36 PM
    • 4,128 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    No that's not what I'm saying. The wife does require assistance inside the house for certain aspects of life, but is still able to function enough to provide for the needs of the child. The husband has actually had to reduce his working hours which is how he is now able to claim CA himself.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 17th Sep 17, 9:50 AM
    • 16,089 Posts
    • 39,967 Thanks
    FBaby
    No that's not what I'm saying. The wife does require assistance inside the house for certain aspects of life, but is still able to function enough to provide for the needs of the child. The husband has actually had to reduce his working hours which is how he is now able to claim CA himself.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    And this is exactly why CA is really an extended benefit to PIP/DLA because how could you possible challenge the above?

    Personally, I struggle to understand how, if you need help with washing, dressing, cooking, hearing or remembering things for 35 hours a week, you can actually provide safe additional care to young children. An adult with physical needs, maybe but young children?
    • Stop Watch
    • By Stop Watch 17th Sep 17, 10:09 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    Stop Watch
    Carers Allowance = one of the most abused benefits in the system. I think if somebody gets high rate care and somebody claims carers then the care element should be removed.
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