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    • Halifax_sux
    • By Halifax_sux 14th Sep 17, 7:45 PM
    • 105Posts
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    Halifax_sux
    old pension
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 7:45 PM
    old pension 14th Sep 17 at 7:45 PM
    Hi,
    I retired a few years ago. A couple of months ago, out of the blue, i received a letter from Aviva about an old pension. Having heard of, and seen lots of pension cons, initially alarm bells did ring. However, big company, letter not e-mail ...
    So i wrote (letter) and shortly after received a reply about an old pension from an employer i really did have at the time they quoted (the early 70's). This looked kosher ... and promising too! Big however - they were only offering £36 (ish) per annum (yes!).
    This seemed strange. Surely even quite a small pesion (i might have only paid in for 2 or 3 yrs) would be worth more than that after such a long time - especially due to the sky high interest rates during a large part of the early years of the investment.
    So i wrote and asked them for a break-down of their expenses & fees only to receive a reply that totally ignored my question. So i wrote back agian and this time they told me i could not transfer the pension (i have never asked that) and to write to HMRC for the information,
    What right do i have to request a full breakdown of the charges, etc, and exactly how this pension figure was arrived at?

    Switzerland has Dignitas
    the UK has DCA's, Bankers and Lawyers.
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 14th Sep 17, 8:28 PM
    • 89,576 Posts
    • 56,036 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 8:28 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 8:28 PM
    especially due to the sky high interest rates during a large part of the early years of the investment.
    interest rates dont apply to investments directly.

    What right do i have to request a full breakdown of the charges, etc, and exactly how this pension figure was arrived at?
    on a plan from the 70s? none. They gave you a policy document when you started which detailed at all. They issue statements every year. Trying to reproduce nearly 50 years of data is unlikely. They can tell you what the charges are. They can tell you the total contribution and the value and any terms that apply.

    A plan from the 70s pre-dates modern pensions. This could be a non-profit plan or a deferred annuity or a hybrid plan.

    This seemed strange. Surely even quite a small pesion (i might have only paid in for 2 or 3 yrs)
    Plans of that era front loaded the charges. Often plans would obtain no value at all for the first 2-4 years and it was only contributions made from that point onwards that gained value.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Sep 17, 9:49 PM
    • 23,442 Posts
    • 13,627 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 9:49 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 9:49 PM
    Can it be taken as a lump sum?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 14th Sep 17, 10:44 PM
    • 672 Posts
    • 422 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 10:44 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 10:44 PM
    In those days employers didn't always allow people to join their pensions until a year or two of service so maybe only a few months contributions went in?

    Either way just be happy and work out the best way of taking and using the money. If you really cared to know you should have also been monitoring the investment. It's very reassuring that Aviva made the effort to find you.
    Last edited by Alexland; 14-09-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    • Halifax_sux
    • By Halifax_sux 15th Sep 17, 6:19 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Halifax_sux
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 6:19 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 17, 6:19 PM
    Thanks all for replying.

    Alexland:
    No, i must have paid in for at least a couple of years.
    "Using the money" LOL (see below)

    xylophone:
    yes, total four hundred and something

    dunstonh:
    Sure, interest rates don't apply "directly" but they are usually an indication PLUS the stock market has risen a fair bit since then:



    They did not give me a policy document nor issue any statements.

    I asked for the charges - totally ignored!

    They say it's an Equivalent Pension Benefit as contracted out.

    They say i can't transfer - even though i never asked for this.

    They also say that the amount payable "would have been advised by HMRC" and that i should contact them for further details.
    - Surely that can't be right otherwise why does anyone ever need to use the old pension finder site if you can get everything you need from HMRC?

    Thnks again.

    Switzerland has Dignitas
    the UK has DCA's, Bankers and Lawyers.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Sep 17, 10:47 PM
    • 23,442 Posts
    • 13,627 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:47 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 10:47 PM
    Are you yet in receipt of a state pension?

    Equivalent Pension Benefit as contracted out.
    It seems you were working at some point between 1961 and 1975.

    Between 6 April 1961 and 5 April 1975 schemes were able to contract out of the State Graduated Pension Scheme. ... However, to replace the graduated pension, a small pension known as an Equivalent Pension Benefit (EPB) was awarded, payable from age 65 (men) or 60 (women).

    It may be that this relates to the Aviva policy?
    • Halifax_sux
    • By Halifax_sux 16th Sep 17, 11:25 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Halifax_sux
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:25 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:25 PM
    Yes, "in receipt of a state pension", as of a few years ago.
    Yes, "contracted out".

    Switzerland has Dignitas
    the UK has DCA's, Bankers and Lawyers.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 16th Sep 17, 11:42 PM
    • 23,442 Posts
    • 13,627 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:42 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Sep 17, 11:42 PM
    Any "grad" shown on your SP statement of benefit?

    Even for those who were contracted in, this usually represents a tiny amount.

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn105.pdf

    The first earnings-related state pension to be implemented, in 1961, was the graduated retirement benefit (GRB). The idea was that wage-earners would have to make mandatory contributions up to a certain level of earnings; these contributions would allow workers to buy ‘units of
    pension’ that would be convertible into a weekly income according to the
    value of these ‘graduated pension units’. However, to reduce the cost, the
    government did not increase the nominal value of pension units between
    1961 and 1978, despite cumulative inflation over this period of nearly
    300%. Thus this social insurance scheme died almost at birth because of
    the government’s refusal to accept its inherent cost.


    http://www.ukpensioncalculator.co.uk/guide/165/graduated-pension.html
    • Halifax_sux
    • By Halifax_sux 17th Sep 17, 4:56 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Halifax_sux
    • #9
    • 17th Sep 17, 4:56 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Sep 17, 4:56 PM
    Any "grad" shown on your SP statement of benefit?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    No.
    ty for links, i'll have a read tmorrow.

    Switzerland has Dignitas
    the UK has DCA's, Bankers and Lawyers.
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