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  • FIRST POST
    • CYPER
    • By CYPER 14th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    • 201Posts
    • 25Thanks
    CYPER
    Collision: Whose fault is it?
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:29 PM
    Collision: Whose fault is it? 14th Sep 17 at 2:29 PM
    Car with dascam in the rightmost lane. Van on the left of the car.
    Van cuts car off

    https://youtu.be/DfvMfe9LVGI

    On the same note will this just polish off? The tyre of the van hit the bumper. It mostly looks like rubber resedue?

    Last edited by CYPER; 14-09-2017 at 2:37 PM.
Page 4
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 14th Sep 17, 11:09 PM
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    Joe Horner
    Sorry, not convinced by the "low sun" bit for not seeing the indicator.

    On the approach to the roundabout the van (and the car) enter full shade by about 2 sec in to the video. Apart from a couple of brief flashes of sunlight (which admittedly can be distracting) the van is still in shade at the 13 second mark when the collision occurs.

    Even allowing for the couple of bright flashes of sun, that's a good 8 or 9 seconds where the van was in shade with a flashing amber light at close to the car driver's eye level!
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 14th Sep 17, 11:33 PM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    I did not chose to hit that vat. Any sane person, which I am would avoid such a collision.
    Not seeing his indicators because of the sun shining I assumed the van is going straight being in the left lane. He then made a very quick last minute manoeuvre into my lane as to not miss his exit and even though I braked we collided.

    If I had any expectations that he is going round, then I would have let him pass, but him being in the wrong lane is the main cause of the collision.
    Originally posted by CYPER
    You do remember that you've posted a video of the incident, don't you? In most cases on here, people have to make judgements based on the OP's written description of the event and the opinions and arguments go back and forth but ultimately, we have to work on the balance of probabilities and the description given by a party with a vested interest. In your case, you've captured the whole thing on camera so people have a very clear view of what happened. People's views are what they are, based on the video. You can argue with the views expressed all you like, but we can all see what happened.
    • CYPER
    • By CYPER 14th Sep 17, 11:41 PM
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    CYPER
    Yes. The OP has stated that an indicator doesn't give right of way but he couldn't see it anyway. But he must have seen the van yet chose to drive into the rear corner of it anyway.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    But you didn't avoid one.
    Originally posted by Warwick Hunt
    Is it because I am a bad driver?

    You do remember that you've posted a video of the incident, don't you? In most cases on here, people have to make judgements based on the OP's written description of the event and the opinions and arguments go back and forth but ultimately, we have to work on the balance of probabilities and the description given by a party with a vested interest. In your case, you've captured the whole thing on camera so people have a very clear view of what happened. People's views are what they are, based on the video. You can argue with the views expressed all you like, but we can all see what happened.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    True, the important thing is I cleaned the "damage".
    Btw my driving instructor expressed an opinion that the van is in the wrong. Good enough for me
    Last edited by CYPER; 14-09-2017 at 11:48 PM.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 14th Sep 17, 11:46 PM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    Is it because I am a bad driver?
    Originally posted by CYPER
    I doubt it. We all make occasional mistakes and misjudgments and most of the time there are no consequences. An advanced driving course is a good investment if you drive a lot. It will improve your anticipation, situational judgement and generally make you a more defensive driver. In your accident, there were enough to tell-tale signs that the van driver was lost/distracted/lacking spatial awareness and the prudent thing to do would have been to hold back a few more feet so his poor lane discipline would have been entirely in front of you. It's easy to see all these things in a video you can watch over and over again, but good defensive driving will make you more likely to spot the signs in a live situation.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 15th Sep 17, 12:06 AM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    Btw my driving instructor expressed an opinion that the van is in the wrong. Good enough for me
    That's his/her prerogative. Would your instructor suggest you drive in exactly the same way should that situation arise again, then? If so, I'd suggest finding another instructor if you ever decide to have advanced lessons.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 15th Sep 17, 12:38 AM
    • 11,523 Posts
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    Strider590
    We all make occasional mistakes and misjudgments
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    Indeed we do, starting threads on these forums being one of them

    There's a reason why i've started very few in all these years and it's not because I already know everything
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • tho
    • By tho 15th Sep 17, 6:52 AM
    • 171 Posts
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    tho
    What damage was done to the van? I hope you've reported it to your insurance company anyway incase he puts in a claim.

    I'd go with that the insurers will say 50/50. You drove into the great big van right in front of you.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 15th Sep 17, 8:02 AM
    • 1,355 Posts
    • 896 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    I did not chose to hit that vat. Any sane person, which I am would avoid such a collision.
    Not seeing his indicators because of the sun shining I assumed the van is going straight being in the left lane. He then made a very quick last minute manoeuvre into my lane as to not miss his exit and even though I braked we collided.

    If I had any expectations that he is going round, then I would have let him pass, but him being in the wrong lane is the main cause of the collision.
    Originally posted by CYPER
    But your own video shows you steering towards the van which was ahead on your near side.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 15th Sep 17, 8:09 AM
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    Iceweasel
    I did not chose to hit that vat. Any sane person, which I am would avoid such a collision.
    Not seeing his indicators because of the sun shining I assumed the van is going straight being in the left lane. He then made a very quick last minute manoeuvre into my lane as to not miss his exit and even though I braked we collided.

    If I had any expectations that he is going round, then I would have let him pass, but him being in the wrong lane is the main cause of the collision.
    Originally posted by CYPER
    There is the whole problem.

    You should learn from it.

    Luckily you have polished the 'damage' off your car.

    Now be ready for a claim from the van driver/owner/insurance company.

    I hope that you have reported this.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 15th Sep 17, 8:12 AM
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    Joe Horner
    Is it because I am a bad driver?
    Originally posted by CYPER
    Probably not. There's no way any of us can judge that from 40 seconds of footage - if there was then the driving test would be much shorter than it is - but even the best do make mistakes. My "bloody fool" comment in my first post is only the forum-friendly version of what I would have been calling myself in that situation!

    The more important question is "Can I learn from this?". That's much more important in the long run than "who was at fault?". In this case, there were plenty of warning signs that the van might not be doing what you expected.

    Some of us (probably because we've been bitten by similar incidents or near misses in the past) saw those signs immediately in the video. The problem is, it's very difficult to pass on that sort of experience, especially on t'internet, without potentially sounding like you're "having a go".
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 15th Sep 17, 8:47 AM
    • 9,989 Posts
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    neilmcl
    I did not chose to hit that vat. Any sane person, which I am would avoid such a collision.
    Not seeing his indicators because of the sun shining I assumed the van is going straight being in the left lane. He then made a very quick last minute manoeuvre into my lane as to not miss his exit and even though I braked we collided.

    If I had any expectations that he is going round, then I would have let him pass, but him being in the wrong lane is the main cause of the collision.
    Originally posted by CYPER
    As already posted you didn't avoid the collision, instead due, possibly to lack of concentration, you attempted to take the exit and hit the van. I don't know why people are saying the van changed direction, if anyone looks purely at the front of your car in the footage it's clear that it's you that moves over.

    Also, as you get more driving experience you will come to realise that you should never ASSUME anything about the intentions of another car driver.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 15-09-2017 at 8:52 AM.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 15th Sep 17, 8:49 AM
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    neilmcl
    Is it because I am a bad driver?



    True, the important thing is I cleaned the "damage".
    Btw my driving instructor expressed an opinion that the van is in the wrong. Good enough for me
    Originally posted by CYPER
    Have you actually passed a driving test yet?
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 15th Sep 17, 8:59 AM
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    Mercdriver
    The only thing you should assume is that a driver is going to do something silly. Sometimes it's someone else, sometimes it's yourself. Drive cautiously enough to be able to do something about it and you will minimise the risk.

    My father in law always said to me while I was learning (as he said to his two daughters) drive to take into account the other idiots on the road.

    As I say, sometimes the idiot is someone else, sometimes it's you. Recognise the things you do badly when driving, you'll soon notice similar faults in others. No such thing as a perfect driver.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 15th Sep 17, 9:00 AM
    • 1,355 Posts
    • 896 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Have you actually passed a driving test yet?
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    If not, (to OP) what was your supervising driver's comment?
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 15th Sep 17, 9:18 AM
    • 4,191 Posts
    • 3,034 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    Is it because I am a bad driver?



    True, the important thing is I cleaned the "damage".
    Btw my driving instructor expressed an opinion that the van is in the wrong. Good enough for me
    Originally posted by CYPER
    Be aware that driving instructors do NOT teach people how to drive well - that comes only with experience.

    They teach people how to pass a minimum standard test.

    A driving instructor's comment on any incident that he/she did not personally see would NOT be good enough for me - and many others I suspect.

    My advanced driving instructor (a different beast entirely) advised that we should all use the ABC principle when observing other drivers and any signals of their intentions to do things.

    A: Assume nothing.
    B: Believe nothing.
    C: Check everything.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 15th Sep 17, 9:21 AM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,983 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Be aware that driving instructors do NOT teach people how to drive well - that comes only with experience.

    They teach people how to pass a minimum standard test.

    A driving instructor's comment on any incident that he/she did not personally see would NOT be good enough for me - and many others I suspect.

    My advanced driving instructor (a different beast entirely) advised that we should all use the ABC principle when observing other drivers and any signals of their intentions to do things.

    A: Assume nothing.
    B: Believe nothing.
    C: Check everything.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    In this instance the OP failed his ABCs then
    • CYPER
    • By CYPER 15th Sep 17, 9:49 AM
    • 201 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    CYPER
    Have you actually passed a driving test yet?
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Yes, 5 years ago.
    • bonnyrigger
    • By bonnyrigger 15th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bonnyrigger
    There are some on this forum who if an OPs car was hit by an Asteroid impact would say it was 50% his fault
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 15th Sep 17, 1:41 PM
    • 813 Posts
    • 533 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    There are some on this forum who if an OPs car was hit by an Asteroid impact would say it was 50% his fault
    Originally posted by bonnyrigger

    I think their insurance company would agree it was a "fault" claim too...
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 15th Sep 17, 1:58 PM
    • 4,406 Posts
    • 3,775 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    There are some on this forum who if an OPs car was hit by an Asteroid impact would say it was 50% his fault
    Originally posted by bonnyrigger


    So you think they'd be able to claim 50% off the Asteroid's insurance, do you?


    Pretty sure the insured would end up with a 100% fault claim in those circumstances.


    Nice try, though.
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