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  • FIRST POST
    • bioboybill
    • By bioboybill 14th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
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    bioboybill
    1 house built across 2 plots
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
    1 house built across 2 plots 14th Sep 17 at 2:18 PM
    My son and his girlfriend are in the process of buying their first house. They were close to agreeing a date for completion and exchanging contracts when they were contacted by their EA sales progressor to say there was a slight problem.


    The lady they are buying from is buying an old vicarage. Apparently the vicarage was built on land that had previously been 2 plots of land, and an error had been made that meant that ownership of only one plot had been transferred. The solicitor who made the mistake is apparently the same solicitor being used to sell the vicarage now.


    The EA sales progressor said that it should take a week or so to sort out. That was 2 weeks ago and my son and his girlfriend are having no luck getting phone calls returned other than from their own solicitor saying that "it's a complex issue and not worth me contacting them more than every 2 weeks, so I will contact the vendor's solicitor tomorrow".


    Does anybody have any experience of this sort of issue, and can suggest how to proceed? I guess the sales progressor will say whatever is necessary to keep the sales going, as they are involved in selling both properties, but maybe the solicitors haven't come across this before and haven't a clue. Of course it could all be BS and another issue is involved?


    If it was me I might start suggesting that I could be looking at other properties, but I suppose unless you're actually prepared to walk away that might be futile. On the other hand if they have no idea how this can be rectified and how long it might take there comes a point where that might have to happen. Their solicitor has no idea how long this might take, or so they say.


    TIA for any ideas.
Page 1
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 14th Sep 17, 2:40 PM
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    eddddy
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:40 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:40 PM
    If it was me I might start suggesting that I could be looking at other properties, but I suppose unless you're actually prepared to walk away that might be futile.
    Originally posted by bioboybill
    I wouldn't say it's futile. They just look at other properties, to see if they eventually find another one they like.

    If they do, they can re-check status with the solicitor. If things are still looking grim on the current property, they switch over and offer on the new one.


    Conversely, if they're looking but not finding anything else they like, they haven't lost anything. They just keep waiting for the current one to move forward.
    Last edited by eddddy; 14-09-2017 at 2:42 PM.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 14th Sep 17, 2:51 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:51 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:51 PM
    Ignore the "sales progressor". He knows nothing. They are paying their solicitor a lot of money for his advice so he is the one to listen to.
    Does their solicitor have any ties to the EA selling the house?
    • camptownraces
    • By camptownraces 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • 311 Posts
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    camptownraces
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    Sounds as if it's perfectly sortable, especially given the same solicitors are dealing with it as made the mistake in the first place.

    Taking into account all the procedures which will have to be gone through with HM Land Registry, who are under a lot of pressure atm, it'll certainly take more than a couple of weeks.

    If son and gf are renting, tell them NOT to give their notice in until they have a completion date.

    They should ask their own solicitor for an informed opinion on how long the process for the other solicitors to rectify the title might take.
    • bioboybill
    • By bioboybill 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
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    bioboybill
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
    They have asked their solicitor how long it might take, and they have said they don't know. AFAIK their solicitor has no ties to the EA. Unfortunately despite us advising them ages ago to give their rental notice after exchange, the vendor of the house they are buying said they were in a hurry to complete by 13th September. They told their solicitor and their solicitor said, "I'm not advising you to give notice, but if you want to avoid having to pay another month's rent then give notice now" and they did. Utter madness, I know!


    Their notice ends on 27th September, but they have now been told that their landlord will allow them to stay on until they need to move. How long the landlord's patience will last is another matter.
  • Land Registry
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 17, 2:18 PM
    Sounds as if it's perfectly sortable, especially given the same solicitors are dealing with it as made the mistake in the first place.

    Taking into account all the procedures which will have to be gone through with HM Land Registry, who are under a lot of pressure atm, it'll certainly take more than a couple of weeks.

    If son and gf are renting, tell them NOT to give their notice in until they have a completion date.

    They should ask their own solicitor for an informed opinion on how long the process for the other solicitors to rectify the title might take.
    Originally posted by camptownraces
    If it wasn't transferred at the time it now needs to be. That invariably means tracing the original seller, and still the owner, to get them to execute another Transfer.

    Clearly that all depends on finding them and getting them to action it. In my experience that can take time, how long is impossible to gauge as far too many ponderables. So it's not futile but the key factor is where are the original owners now.

    I'd be asking the solicitor involved if they are in touch with the original owner or not.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 15th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    • 413 Posts
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    ProDave
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    I know I keep mentioning this, but when did the last sale take place (the one that only transfered half the plot)?

    If it was more than 12 years ago, and the current owner of the property has had exclusive use of the land to the exclusion of all others, then if the last owner cannot be traced, it can probably be solved by a claim for adverse possession as they have used the land exclusively and uncontested for the required period.
    • bioboybill
    • By bioboybill 15th Sep 17, 3:49 PM
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    bioboybill
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:49 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:49 PM
    If it wasn't transferred at the time it now needs to be. That invariably means tracing the original seller, and still the owner, to get them to execute another Transfer.

    Clearly that all depends on finding them and getting them to action it. In my experience that can take time, how long is impossible to gauge as far too many ponderables. So it's not futile but the key factor is where are the original owners now.

    I'd be asking the solicitor involved if they are in touch with the original owner or not.
    Originally posted by Land Registry
    I am only getting my information third hand, but my understanding is that the vendor still knows the person they bought from. I suppose even if they are able to easily contact the person they probably don't see it as a great priority to reply and get this sorted.
    Last edited by bioboybill; 15-09-2017 at 3:56 PM.
    • bioboybill
    • By bioboybill 15th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
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    bioboybill
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    I know I keep mentioning this, but when did the last sale take place (the one that only transfered half the plot)?

    If it was more than 12 years ago, and the current owner of the property has had exclusive use of the land to the exclusion of all others, then if the last owner cannot be traced, it can probably be solved by a claim for adverse possession as they have used the land exclusively and uncontested for the required period.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    Yes, I have heard of this sort of thing before from when I was looking at buying building plots for myself some 25 years ago. I know that people have occupied land by putting caravans on and if unchallenged land has been claimed that way. Not that I would ever do such a despicable thing. As I understand it though, a new act came in 2002 that meant the "squatter" had to make an application to have the land registered to then and the current owner given the opportunity to appeal against it. Not sure how long that could take.
    Last edited by bioboybill; 15-09-2017 at 3:56 PM.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 15th Sep 17, 4:25 PM
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    • 488 Thanks
    ProDave
    Yes, I have heard of this sort of thing before from when I was looking at buying building plots for myself some 25 years ago. I know that people have occupied land by putting caravans on and if unchallenged land has been claimed that way. Not that I would ever do such a despicable thing. As I understand it though, a new act came in 2002 that meant the "squatter" had to make an application to have the land registered to then and the current owner given the opportunity to appeal against it. Not sure how long that could take.
    Originally posted by bioboybill
    I was really only suggeting the adverse possession route if the original seller could not be found or did not cooperate. As soon as it was proven he had received payment for the land, it's just that it was not legally transferred, I think any counter claim he might bring would fail.

    I would definitely discuss it with my solicitor, though I suspect it's the vendors solicitor that would have to make the adverse possession claim so out of your control.,
    Last edited by ProDave; 15-09-2017 at 4:30 PM.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 15th Sep 17, 4:49 PM
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    Robin9
    Walk away from this purchase.

    As this is an old vicarage the Church of England will be involved and their legal system makes a snail look fast. Two weeks is fiction - two years if you are luck.

    Just been involved in a straightforward vicarage sale.!
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 15th Sep 17, 7:02 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Personally I would just look for something else and drop this one and give feed back to the vendor that your not prepared to wait for an unknown length of time end while this sorts itself, sorry better luck in the future.
    I make spelling mistakes, its not intentional, its a condition I have please afford people who have these conditions some respect and not single out their posts for correcting mistakes.
    • bioboybill
    • By bioboybill 19th Sep 17, 7:29 PM
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    bioboybill
    Well my son and his girlfriend continued to wait around, got fobbed off a bit more and their vendor pulled out and took her house off the market today, leaving them high and dry. That's them probably down another £1K in solicitor's fees and valuation fees and not sure how long they can stay in their rental property. And 4 months wasted. Oh well........
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