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  • FIRST POST
    • mitch2471
    • By mitch2471 14th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    • 5Posts
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    mitch2471
    AVRO Energy false prices advertised
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:15 PM
    AVRO Energy false prices advertised 14th Sep 17 at 2:15 PM
    Just a heads up so hopefully other people don't have their time wasted by Avro.
    I just applied to switch to them based on Martins Energy Club recommendation. They have emailed me today asking for previous energy statements as they thought my energy used figures were to low.
    In fact the statements I sent them show I'm using less energy than what I originally quoted them & the energy club!
    They came back to me with a quote which was £20 higher than the quote Martins Energy Club gave me & also £20 higher than their website quoted me as part of the sign up process!

    So in effect I supplied proof that showed I was using less & they jacked the price up!


    In other words false advertising.
Page 1
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 14th Sep 17, 2:19 PM
    • 9,842 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:19 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:19 PM
    The tariff would be exactly the same if it was the same product .
    Your quote is just an estimate based upon estimated usage going forward .
    So no false advertising .
    Can you post/ show this advert ??
    • mitch2471
    • By mitch2471 14th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    mitch2471
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:42 PM
    Well it was!
    Like I say Martins Energy Saving Club recommended it at £62 per month for a dual fuel. It still does.
    I'm new to this forum so I don't know how to upload images so can't attach a screen grab.
    They have emailed me now quoting £82 per month for essentially supplying them with figures showing that I'm actually using less than I originally quoted them.

    Please don't reply saying "so no false advertising" like you have got to the bottom of the entire situation in one short response, because you haven't & it just appears rude & obnoxious.

    If that isn't false advertising I don't know what is. If you want to call me a liar I'm happy to ping over my last year of statements along with Avro's emails pushing the price up.
    Let me guess you have enough time to suggest I'm telling porkies but not enough to prove I'm right?
    • molerat
    • By molerat 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • 17,310 Posts
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    molerat
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:55 PM
    The price you pay for your energy, unless you have evidence to the contrary, will be as advertised. The monthly direct debit they wish to charge is different to what MSECEC suggests but is just a payment on account. MSE simply divide your annual amount by 12 but I suspect, as you are coming on supply in the lead up to the expensive part of the year, Avro do not want you to get too much in debit. They will no doubt reduce the DD after the winter period. Many of the smaller energy companies operate this way as their lower cash flows cannot allow them to buy too much energy in advance if they have not got the money coming in to pay for it.
    Last edited by molerat; 14-09-2017 at 3:02 PM.
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    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    • 4,514 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    Well it was!
    Like I say Martins Energy Saving Club recommended it at £62 per month for a dual fuel. It still does.
    I'm new to this forum so I don't know how to upload images so can't attach a screen grab.
    They have emailed me now quoting £82 per month for essentially supplying them with figures showing that I'm actually using less than I originally quoted them.

    Please don't reply saying "so no false advertising" like you have got to the bottom of the entire situation in one short response, because you haven't & it just appears rude & obnoxious.

    If that isn't false advertising I don't know what is. If you want to call me a liar I'm happy to ping over my last year of statements along with Avro's emails pushing the price up.
    Let me guess you have enough time to suggest I'm telling porkies but not enough to prove I'm right?
    Originally posted by mitch2471
    The important details here are the standing charges and the price per kWh. Have these changed: they will have been confirmed in your Welcome Pack?

    As far as your projected annual cost is concerned, this is only an estimate. You will only pay for what you use at the agreed tariff rate. Your monthly DD payments are only payments made on account. Some suppliers charge more for an Autumn/Winter switch so that you donít accrue a large debit balance over the Winter months.

    Could it be that you have misunderstood the deal that you have signed up to? Have you read the terms and conditions?

    I will get my coat.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 14th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    • 1,838 Posts
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    Robin9
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:11 PM
    People do get het up about standing charges.

    What is important are the unit charges, standing charges and the consumption figures which you as the consumer give. These combine to give an estimate for the year - the suppliers then divide this up in different ways.

    Some suppliers do front load the DD at this time of year and adjust it during the year depending on your actual consumption (for those who bother to give meter readings)

    If you don't like the way AVRO do business - move on - there are plenty of other suppliers out there.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • mitch2471
    • By mitch2471 14th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    mitch2471
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:24 PM
    Well I haven't been been sent a welcome pack yet!

    You all seem to desperate to offer excuses for why or how this may not be Avro at fault & how they possibly couldn't charge any more than the amount advertised.

    You are making this way more complicated than it really is!

    I'm sorry I'm not trying to be rude by my patience is already wearing thin what with dealing with Avro today.

    Maybe I am not explaining this clearly enough? Iím going to put this as simply as humanly possible.

    I went looking for a better deal on my gas & electric using Martins Energy Club.

    I input my details including yearly kwh usage based on my initial estimate 4 x quarterly bill of gas & electric (first quarter of year bill used i.e. winter). I assumed that since this spanned winter I would be actually stating that I was using more than I was, i.e. covering myself against using to low a figure.


    Martins Energy Club had & still has Avro at the top of the list of energy suppliers & quoted me £62 per month.

    I clicked on the go to site button & was diverted away from Martins Energy Club to Avro where I had to input the same information. I was given the same quote (£62) & advised that I would receive a welcome pack.

    Today they have emailed me saying that their finance department thinks my energy usage figures are to low & requested statements to verify usage. I have still not received a welcome pack.

    I emailed back with by energy statements attached. I have actually been through these statements & found as stated that I am actually using less energy per year than I had originally quoted them. So the figures showed I use less.


    They have emailed me back :
    Hi Mitchell,

    Based on your annual consumption figures, the cheapest quote I can offer you is £82 per month for dual fuel.

    Could you please reply to this email confirming whether or not you would like to go ahead with the switch?

    Kind Regards,

    Will Brown | Switching Team
    Avro Energy Limited
    Wheatfield House | Wheatfield Way | Hinckley | LE10 1YG
    T: 0800 6800 795




    Martins Energy Saving Club is still quoting Avro as a top pick for me at £62 per month. I know these are estimated figures. I know I only pay for what I use. I am not a teenager. I am over forty years old so am familiar with energy supply.
    The bottom line is the estimated quote has jumped by £20 because I proved I am using less energy than I originally told them I was using.
    Last edited by mitch2471; 14-09-2017 at 3:26 PM.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 14th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    • 4,514 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    The reason why Avro believes that your projected usage figures are low is because they will have obtained the past 2 years usage figures from the Data Collectors for your property. What you have here is simply a disagreement about the projected usage - not the tariff. If you use what you believe you will use, then your total ‘bill’ over the year will match the comparison price. Most suppliers will review your monthly DD payment at the 6 month point. If you are unhappy, cancel the switch.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 14th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
    • 4,514 Posts
    • 2,693 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
    If they already have 2 years worth of figures why did they ask for my statements from my existing supplier?

    My figures (as per my statements) show the usage figure to be lower to that I originally quoted them.

    There is no dispute over usage. I gave them an estimate based on the first quarter of the year bill. They asked for proof. I gave them GB Energy pdf statements proving the usage was actually lower than I originally quoted them. That's the last years usage as per GB Energy. No dispute to be had. They are lower figures. They reply by putting the quote up!

    As for your final point about just cancelling. Well thanks for the advice I had not thought of that.

    Seriously jog on pencil pusher. I posted this to let other users know that Avro are problematic so they could take that into consideration when they choose their next supplier i.e. a word of warning.

    All I have had in response is users trying to put the blame on me & make out like its my fault somehow. Are you staff under the guise of well known members trying to save face!
    This is meant to be a forum to discuss the good & bad to help other users benefit or not fall into the same pitiful, not for users/staff to hound anyone out who shares a bad experience.
    Originally posted by mitch2471
    You really have a nice way with words. I wish you well with your selection of a supplier.
    • cifpower
    • By cifpower 14th Sep 17, 4:13 PM
    • 6,445 Posts
    • 4,098 Thanks
    cifpower
    Do the unit rates and standing charges differ? Simple yes or no would clear everything up rather than several paragraphs of waffle and ad hominem attacks.


    • molerat
    • By molerat 14th Sep 17, 4:19 PM
    • 17,310 Posts
    • 11,505 Thanks
    molerat
    As I posted earlier, the most probable reason for the high initial DD is that you are starting in the run up to the cold season and they simply cannot afford too many people building up a large debit over winter and not paying for energy they have used, much of which the supplier has purchased in advance, and not repay them until summer. Either have cheap energy and pay a little more up front or pay more overall, your choice.
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    • mitch2471
    • By mitch2471 14th Sep 17, 5:05 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    mitch2471
    cifpower - Maybe if people actually read & understood what was being said to them in plain English I wouldn't have to dumb it down to waffle & wouldn't have to make ad hominem attacks. I can only put it in idiot proof terms so many times. The below may clear this up for you (or not).

    As said multiple times I haven't been furnished with a welcome pack or terms & conditions so do not know anything about their standing charges. I haven't got that far with them? Do you understand? Simply at the quote stage?

    If they hadn't changed the quote simply because I use less fuel than I originally quoted them I would have chased them for a welcome pack (if not received soon) & carefully read through it. This is not a terms & conditions issue at this point.

    I have since found another supplier who has also quoted me £62 per month & have successfully signed up with them without a hitch.

    molerat sorry for not addressing your previous response. Yours is so far the most intelligent response. That's not me talking down to you by any means. What you say is possible I guess but surely their quote system & Martin's Energy Saving quote system should reflect that.
    Otherwise like I say its false advertising. Quote one price to attract people in & then increase the price when the customer applies.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 14th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    • 9,842 Posts
    • 4,051 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    But the price of xx pounds per year is not a quote . Its an estimate of your costs based upon estimated usage .
    Your £62 per month you have changed to is not a be all and end all figure just an estimate .
    You will pay more or less dependent upon your usage .Once more the key is the actual charges .

    But i am in agreement with you on one point .
    I believe that the system should be geared up to the lowest common denominator and make it easy for the clueless to understand .
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 14th Sep 17, 6:49 PM
    • 1,838 Posts
    • 1,195 Thanks
    Robin9
    MITCH -come back in 12 months time and tell us how much you paid in the 12 months.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 14th Sep 17, 7:28 PM
    • 11,435 Posts
    • 15,024 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    Mitch, I've just registered with Avro last week and I got my welcome pack attached as a PDF to the "Welcome" email that invited me to set up my account on their website (I missed it at first and thought it would be in a separate email).
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?
    Married to an immigrant.
    Even my PC is nicknamed "GIBBS".
    • mitch2471
    • By mitch2471 15th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    mitch2471
    I think it’s fairly obvious to all concerned that the £62 is a quote & what I actually pay over the 12 months will vary dependent on use. I have already pointed out that I am aware of this but some of you still keep harping on about it like it is the cause of the issue.

    If my quote jumps by £20 (like it did) my Direct Debit jumps by £20. Yes, I may (most likely will) get my money back further down the line.

    Why should I accept an increase in my initial monthly payment based on the fact that I use less gas & electricity?
    I presently pay £59 per month with my existing supplier & my account is in credit. They will be sending me a cheque when I leave them.

    Bottom line is you can't quote someone £62 (which dictates the amount of your monthly Direct Debit for potentially your first 6 months) & then when you find out that customers is actually going to use a little less gas & electricity increase the quote & subsequently the monthly Direct Debit to £82!
    If they are front loading quotes based on us running up to winter, that should be detailed on MSE & their own website.

    What they are doing IS false advertising 101.

    There has been so many smug self-assured replies to this thread suggesting that the entire situation has been caused by me not understanding Avro or how energy is billed. A lot of the responses look like they have come from a very badly trained customer service department.
    Not suggesting that MSE employs anyone to monitor the forum, intervene or steer the conversation in a desired direction. I know (1st hand) that most large companies have been doing that now for at least 6 years with forums & social media, but like I say I’m sure that is not the case here at MSE. Obviously. It’s more than likely just some forum member just getting the wrong end of the stick.
    Probably over exhausted from helping so many other users.

    There has since been another thread started by another user showing that Avro pricing no longer matches the pricing of MSE so I am not alone.

    I would like to add that Avro have not contacted me by telephone or replied to my emails so they appear to be falling apart at the seams.

    MothballsW -* thanks for the response. I did receive an email from them asking me to set up a password when I initially applied to join them. I have double checked the email. There is no pdf file attached.
    When I log onto their system it shows a diagram of their switching process & where I am in the process. I'm one step behind being sent a welcome pack (apparently) !
    • cranford
    • By cranford 15th Sep 17, 8:33 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    cranford
    Well Mitch it's probably better that you choose another company before you realise that Avro start the DDs two weeks before the supply starts, this is well documented by them. I have been with them for 18 months and this is a small price to pay for the savings I have made. I have even recently made a cost free switch from one fixed tariff to another that has just been announced saving me another £70 pa.
    • Kiwi_g
    • By Kiwi_g 15th Oct 17, 10:36 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kiwi_g
    I agree with cranford. I've been with Avro for over a year. To get the price, one needs to be proactive and always keep an eye on energy prices even when one's contract is not up for renewal. I changed my contract with them 3 months ago and then I saw that there was a newer deal which was cheaper and so I fixed my prices for the year. I also had a credit and this seemed to have been factored into the monthly DD for the next 12 months. The estimated annual consumption less the credit is around one twelfth on the monthly DD. Yes, I do have some issues with Avro but if one is willing to send them monthly meter readings it works well.
    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 15th Oct 17, 10:58 AM
    • 1,078 Posts
    • 611 Thanks
    nic_c
    You say you are needing to dumb down, but don't seem to get the replies.

    You did not sign up to an agreement that would only charge your £62 per month by DD, you signed up to an agreement that you are charged standing fees and pay for the fuel you use at a defined unit cost. It was sent on the welcome pack, tariff information is given in the CEC and also on Avro website. You do know what tariff you are on? Unit costs are published publicly and are available.

    See: https://www.avroenergy.co.uk/Prices

    Remember they change tariffs every so often so the tariff shown on CEC may well be different (just very similarly named) to the one you signed up for. It is NOT that they are changing tariff after you have signed up but changing the one on offer for people who signed up after you.

    The £62pm was an estimate, if you use more over the year you pay more, if you use less, you pay less. They have looked at previous usage and are setting the DD accordingly - why are they asking you for statements, because you are disputing their usage figures. IF your statements over the last 12 months back your estimates that were used for the CEC they may well put the DD down (the caveat being some smaller suppliers have a higher DD over winter to reflect higher winter use to ensure no large deficits), if not then thats why they are charging higher..
    Would you prefer it they keep at £62, then in a year when you are looking to move they tell you that you owe £240 than needs paying first, I'm sure then you would be moaning they are not allowing you to leave!
    Last edited by nic_c; 15-10-2017 at 11:01 AM.
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