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  • FIRST POST
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 14th Sep 17, 2:09 PM
    • 61Posts
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    ric1982
    Buying a house and school.
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:09 PM
    Buying a house and school. 14th Sep 17 at 2:09 PM
    Hi,

    We are looking for a house in a perticular area in Birmingham. The house we are looking at has only one outstanding primary school and there is no good secondary school. We will be moving in middle of the school as my son is already 6 years old and in year 2. The primary school near the place where we are moving is very popular hence over subscribed. Unfortunately any other school in the area hasnt got good reputation. Now the house is quite nearby so we have been told that my son will be in top of the waiting list (may be not first be in top 5 for e.g.).

    This being said there is no guarantee that he will get into this school. School is obeviously a high priority item in the list with our house move. Does anyone has any openion if this is good move considering there is no good secondary school and primary school that we can get into have waiting list?

    Any inputs are much appriciated.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    • 1,880 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    Your own thread title supplies your answer. Buy the house and the school.

    On a more serious note then doesn't Birmingham still have grammar schools? So I suppose from a secondary school perspective it depends if you think your child will get into one, in which case catchment area matters less.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 14th Sep 17, 3:01 PM
    • 8,217 Posts
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    teddysmum
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:01 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:01 PM
    It's a decision that you have to make.


    Schools with a good reputation will always be in demand and have waiting lists with no hope of ever getting a place.


    They are obliged to have enough places for children living within a certain radius, so some schools decrease that radius , giving children outside the area no chance of a place, but enabling them to honour the offer of places to children nearby.


    Some parents are willing to move house to get access to good schools, so properties within those schools catchment areas are likely to be scare on the market and priced higher than similar properties which are further from the school.


    I don't know whether the ruling still exists now places are generally in demand, but given the choice between two pupils one of whom has a sibling at the school, that child used to get preference.
    • JuzaMum
    • By JuzaMum 14th Sep 17, 3:37 PM
    • 196 Posts
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    JuzaMum
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:37 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:37 PM
    My daughter has been on the waiting list for our local catchment school since July '16. Still waiting.....

    On the bright side the nearest available school is so far away we are entitled to a free bus pass!

    Priority ranking for
    Primary reception to year 6 for the academic year 2017-18
    1. "looked after" children and those previously looked after, who were immediately adopted or became subject to a residence order or special guardianship order. A looked after child is a child who is in the care of a local authority as defined by section 22 of the Children's Act 1989
    2. children where it is agreed that it is essential they be admitted to the school on exceptional medical or psychological grounds. Requests for a particular school, based on the serious medical or psychological condition of the child, must be supported by a qualified professional directly involved with the child and will be referred to the Authority’s medical or psychological adviser for observations before any decision is made. Parents are responsible for providing the required information at the same time as their application
    3. children with siblings who are already on roll in the main school in reception to Year 6 (not a nursery class attached to the school) and will still be on roll when the child is admitted and:
    4. children living nearest to the school as measured by the shortest walking distance according to a Geographic Information System from the child’s home to the main entrance of the school using public roads and recognised footpaths. Children in each category are ranked on the basis of distance
    Last edited by JuzaMum; 14-09-2017 at 3:41 PM.
    • starshapedbrick
    • By starshapedbrick 14th Sep 17, 3:38 PM
    • 33 Posts
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    starshapedbrick
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:38 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:38 PM
    Catchment areas in Birmingham at Primary level can be tiny (250m or less) and if the only good school is oversubscribed already, what will your son do while he is waiting for a place? Birmingham does have grammars but they are extremely competitive - I live in Birmingham and see a lot of people moving out of the area around the Secondary years becuase it is so tough to get into the best schools (at least what OFSTED considers the best). What area are you looking at?
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 14th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ric1982
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:50 PM
    Catchment areas in Birmingham at Primary level can be tiny (250m or less) and if the only good school is oversubscribed already, what will your son do while he is waiting for a place? Birmingham does have grammars but they are extremely competitive - I live in Birmingham and see a lot of people moving out of the area around the Secondary years becuase it is so tough to get into the best schools (at least what OFSTED considers the best). What area are you looking at?
    Originally posted by starshapedbrick
    Well this is it. while he is waiting he will be going to be not so good school. And even they say he will be in top 5 waiting list; there is no guarantee. Also if someone move closer to the school or siblings then we are then we move down the waiting list etc.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 14th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
    • 1,991 Posts
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    ReadingTim
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:53 PM
    Concentrate on secondary, not primary education. A lot can happen between now and when your son goes to secondary school. Failing schools can improve, outstanding schools can decline. I wouldn't worry too much about primary schools - as long as they get the basics across and set the kids up reasonably well for high school, they've done their job. GCSEs and A Levels matter in the real world, SATs don't.

    Generally speaking, over the long term, a school reflects the quality (or lack thereof) of the catchment area from which its pupils are drawn. Good schools are situated in "good" areas, which contain "nice" houses and higher prices!
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ric1982
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 3:57 PM
    Concentrate on secondary, not primary education. A lot can happen between now and when your son goes to secondary school. Failing schools can improve, outstanding schools can decline. I wouldn't worry too much about primary schools - as long as they get the basics across and set the kids up reasonably well for high school, they've done their job. GCSEs and A Levels matter in the real world, SATs don't.

    Generally speaking, over the long term, a school reflects the quality (or lack thereof) of the catchment area from which its pupils are drawn. Good schools are situated in "good" areas, which contain "nice" houses and higher prices!
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    Thanks thats great input. Its worth noting that there is no good secondary school in this area. So by the looks of it I am paying premium for only single primary school (with waiting list) and no good secondary schools. Dont sound too good!
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 14th Sep 17, 4:02 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ric1982
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 4:02 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 4:02 PM
    My daughter has been on the waiting list for our local catchment school since July '16. Still waiting.....

    On the bright side the nearest available school is so far away we are entitled to a free bus pass!

    Priority ranking for
    Primary reception to year 6 for the academic year 2017-18
    1. "looked after" children and those previously looked after, who were immediately adopted or became subject to a residence order or special guardianship order. A looked after child is a child who is in the care of a local authority as defined by section 22 of the Children's Act 1989
    2. children where it is agreed that it is essential they be admitted to the school on exceptional medical or psychological grounds. Requests for a particular school, based on the serious medical or psychological condition of the child, must be supported by a qualified professional directly involved with the child and will be referred to the Authority’s medical or psychological adviser for observations before any decision is made. Parents are responsible for providing the required information at the same time as their application
    3. children with siblings who are already on roll in the main school in reception to Year 6 (not a nursery class attached to the school) and will still be on roll when the child is admitted and:
    4. children living nearest to the school as measured by the shortest walking distance according to a Geographic Information System from the child’s home to the main entrance of the school using public roads and recognised footpaths. Children in each category are ranked on the basis of distance
    Originally posted by JuzaMum
    Thanks for the detailed input. Do you mind sharing what is the waiting list postion of your daughter at the school and how far your house is from that school? Thanks
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 14th Sep 17, 4:39 PM
    • 15,174 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Concentrate on secondary, not primary education. A lot can happen between now and when your son goes to secondary school. Failing schools can improve, outstanding schools can decline. I wouldn't worry too much about primary schools - as long as they get the basics across and set the kids up reasonably well for high school, they've done their job. GCSEs and A Levels matter in the real world, SATs don't.

    Generally speaking, over the long term, a school reflects the quality (or lack thereof) of the catchment area from which its pupils are drawn. Good schools are situated in "good" areas, which contain "nice" houses and higher prices!
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    This ^^^^

    The secondary school is far more important.

    At primary level, it is more about experience and what you as a family do together etc...

    And don't judge a school until you have looked round, looked at the value added score (how well kids do compared to when they stated at the school) and listened to what other parents think. This is far ore important than an Ofsted report.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • ACG
    • By ACG 14th Sep 17, 4:54 PM
    • 15,390 Posts
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    ACG
    When I went to high school, the school was ranked with full marks. That was the same right through until I left.
    The year after it dropped to average.
    The year after that it fell in to special measures.
    6-7 years later, 3 new heads and it has finally gone back to full marks.

    The point I am making is that there may not be good schools now, but they could be by the time your child is old enough to go there.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
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    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 14th Sep 17, 9:10 PM
    • 23,738 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    Let us know which area. It's possible one of us knows it.

    I've always made the decision to drive the kids to the best schools we can. It's at it's worst now with DS at college and DD at grammar some 30 mipes apart! DS turned 17 yesterday, so that problem will be resolved soon.

    There will be more than 2 schools nearby. In my area, the outstanding label is a dangerous one. I'm a governor and I've heard warning about a local outstanding primary. Under the current government, if you have an outstanding rating you don't have Ofsted inspections for a ridiculous amount of time. The outstanding primary just had one after about 7 years and was put straight into special measures!

    Good and improving is where you want your kids to be for a passionate teaching staff. Go and visit schools, talk to the head directly, get a feel for the school.

    You're in a good position at Year 2. There will be some really good schools with a free spot. It doesn't have to be the one outstanding one.

    For secondary, kids travel a long way using the Green Bus for the grammar schools. If you're actually in Birmingham, you're onto a winner there!
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • JuzaMum
    • By JuzaMum 14th Sep 17, 9:23 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    JuzaMum
    My daughter is number 10 on the list out of over 30 - she was No.9 but has moved down . We are 0.6 of a mile away.
    • kirtondm
    • By kirtondm 15th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • 140 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    kirtondm
    I am also a school govener and would not look at ofsted solely.

    I actually put my own kids into a 3 rated school with a new headteacher because I liked the feel of the school and her attitude. 2 years later and the headteacher replacing most of the staff as they didn't meet her standards the School is now grade 2 and impoving.

    My Daughter attended an outstanding pre-school whcih was frankly appallnig - The owner would take holidays at short notice for 2/52 and close random days!

    I have choosen a 2 rated pre-school for my youngest son again based on impression of the place

    Intrestingly we have changed the admissions policy from closest to school to lottery of applicants per band to stop parents 'buying' their way in
    • Bonniepurple
    • By Bonniepurple 15th Sep 17, 9:47 AM
    • 88 Posts
    • 103 Thanks
    Bonniepurple
    My daughters' school is currently is special measures. I feel it is a far, far better, more rounded school which is a better 'fit' for the girls than their old, outstanding school which emphasised competition and was very exclusive.
    Go and see the schools. Ofsted only takes a snapshot. There's a lot of action in 7 years of primary and 7 years of secondary education. Oh, and if you end up with a school which you are not convinced about, see if you can join the governors. Trust me, it is an eye opener to issues that schools face!
    • Narkynewt
    • By Narkynewt 15th Sep 17, 10:01 AM
    • 97 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Narkynewt
    If you are going to stay put for a long while I would say it doesn't matter as much as if you are going to move within the next 5 years. Obviously education is a big thing however if you ensure you help with homework, and assist in the education of your child at home then the school shouldn't matter as much. If they are on special measures it's probably a big warning sign but read the ofstead report and decide.

    If you are wanting to move again soon, the fact there are no decent schools around is a big deal because people really do make sales decisions based on schools.

    Good luck
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 15th Sep 17, 10:18 AM
    • 1,198 Posts
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    IAmWales
    ric you need to check the admissions criteria for the particular school you are interested in. They may well be different to those quoted earlier. As an example, some will prioritise those from a certain faith, some no longer prioritise for a sibling connection (this causes all sorts of problems, but can free up places where older children are moved when their younger siblings start school), and a few still prioritise certain pre schools and (for secondary) primary schools. These can differ within the same area, so be sure to check you have the correct information.

    I'd disagree on focusing on secondary. A good primary will give a child the basics that set them up for later education, arriving at secondary below par means you'll always be playing catch up. (Good in a general sense, not some arbitrary Ofsted report.)
    Last edited by IAmWales; 15-09-2017 at 10:22 AM.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Sep 17, 12:11 PM
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    Davesnave

    I'd disagree on focusing on secondary. A good primary will give a child the basics that set them up for later education, arriving at secondary below par means you'll always be playing catch up. (Good in a general sense, not some arbitrary Ofsted report.)
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    I'm pleased to see someone else here with some appreciation of what primary schools set out to do and the importance of the early years.

    I was beginning to think from previous comments that I'd just spent half my life as little more than a child minder!

    Primaries do much more than just 'the basics' when the situation allows.

    Of course, the secondary school matters, but matters more? In the eyes of those who see education as a product, rather than a process, it probably does, but there's a significant link between performance at entry and attainment later in those GCSEs and A levels.

    Yes, a good secondary will help a child to catch-up. Too often, however, a matter that needs addressing is why progress tails-off for huge numbers of children in the early secondary years, not how they can make up for primary school inadequacies. That's a different debate, though!
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 15th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
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    bouicca21
    Schools have lives. What one is like today is no guarantee of what it will be like tomorrow let alone in 5 years time. They can be outstanding and then fail, and vice versa. A school that I know of was known to be poorly performing when my children were younger, it then got a new head and was turned round in no time. Fast forward, another new head and the place is sinking again.

    A school with high results may nevertheless be failing its pupils because the basis of selection means they should do even better. A school with poor results may be achieving fantastic results for pupils who were never expected to get anywhere.

    What matters is the fit between your child and the school.
    Last edited by bouicca21; 15-09-2017 at 1:52 PM.
    • B61bod
    • By B61bod 15th Sep 17, 12:30 PM
    • 1 Posts
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    B61bod
    Which area are you looking at in Birmingham? Are you moving into Birmingham, or is your child already at a Birmingham school but in a different area?
    We moved out of Birmingham but kept our kids in their school as it fitted in with our commute. There's a lot of options available to you and probably people on here with experiences of the area you're looking at.
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