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    • the_midnight_Wolfboy
    • By the_midnight_Wolfboy 14th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 7Thanks
    the_midnight_Wolfboy
    Recently moved into house, dropped kerb application refused. What can I do?
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 1:27 PM
    Recently moved into house, dropped kerb application refused. What can I do? 14th Sep 17 at 1:27 PM
    Hi all,

    Sorry I wasn't sure if this topic should go in here or in motoring

    I recently bought a house in Southall, needs quite a lot of work (as most houses do here), and I thought getting a dropped kerb in front of my house would be a "quick win"

    My application was refused and has today been denied on appeal by Ealing council because my driveway depth is 4.11m, which falls below the 4.20m requirement.

    What frustrates me is identical houses with identical driveways either side of my house have dropped kerbs, in fact the majority of the houses on the street have dropped kerbs with the same driveways.

    They say that there was a recent policy change so the other houses don't set precedent - but surely this defeats the purpose of setting precedent in the first place?

    They cite the reason as a safety concern because of potential protruding vehicles, I can understand their opinion but I do feel that the decision is slightly unfair? Or am I being unrealistic here?
Page 2
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 14th Sep 17, 3:58 PM
    • 2,793 Posts
    • 2,795 Thanks
    cjdavies
    It's no different to Building Regulations.

    These now specify where and how flues from boilers can exit the building and a host of other things.

    When you intall a new boiler (or whatever) you have to comply with the current rules, but your neighbours who installed their boilers before the current rules were introduced can continue using their boilers without altering the flu.

    You can choose to break the law (metal ramp which will eventually get spotted) or whatever, or you can move. Or park on the road. I don't see how you can appeal since you are unable to comply with the current rules.
    Originally posted by G_M
    This, when I had a new boiler it wasn't simple old one out new one in it's place, it had to be moved to meet the current regulation at the time.
    • freeisgood
    • By freeisgood 14th Sep 17, 4:05 PM
    • 492 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    freeisgood
    How about resessing the section of wall/window by 10cm behind the potential driveway, would that be impossible? Eg level out a bay window...Create a permanent solution to the problem.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 14th Sep 17, 4:37 PM
    • 9,059 Posts
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    theartfullodger
    Yes I agree "rules are rules" so it makes it difficult to appeal the decision, but in the Borough there are other driveways approved that have broken rules e.g. not being over 10m from a junction or being less than 4.2m. For example if you google "MZA planning Crossover appeal" you can see a case study of a driveway approved recently which is clearly under 4.2m depth

    I am just trying to be imaginative here and see if there is anything I can do. My user privileges do not allow me to link to websites or images so I can't show pics on here of my drive but I can try and private message them

    Great images of the bollards , definitely something I want to avoid unless I want my own article in the Daily Mail
    Originally posted by the_midnight_Wolfboy
    I admire your optimism but expecting life, councils, the law to be "fair" or "reasonable" is, I hate to tell you, likely to lead to disappointment - or worse things....

    But if this is the 1st time in your life you have been disappointed in this sort of matter, well, lucky you! I've had way, way more...
    • KittenChops
    • By KittenChops 14th Sep 17, 5:12 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    KittenChops
    Yes I agree "rules are rules" so it makes it difficult to appeal the decision, but in the Borough there are other driveways approved that have broken rules e.g. not being over 10m from a junction or being less than 4.2m. For example if you google "MZA planning Crossover appeal" you can see a case study of a driveway approved recently which is clearly under 4.2m depth

    I am just trying to be imaginative here and see if there is anything I can do. My user privileges do not allow me to link to websites or images so I can't show pics on here of my drive but I can try and private message them

    Great images of the bollards , definitely something I want to avoid unless I want my own article in the Daily Mail
    Originally posted by the_midnight_Wolfboy
    (my bolding above)

    There's a pair of semi detached houses on the corner of my street that was built in the last 5 years - no way are they ten meters from the junction... I wonder how that got through? Am off to nose at the planning documents now...!
    • angelin77
    • By angelin77 14th Sep 17, 6:08 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    angelin77
    I am considering installing a car turntable in my drive. I live on a very busy A road and the turntable is the only realistic way I can spin my car to go out of my drive in forward gear. I have seen turntables priced at about £5500 for a 3,8 diameter one (manual) Maybe this could be a solution for you. You may be able to convince the planning people that you can exit your drive in first gear and also turn it to be parallel with the road/house when parked in your drive, avoiding overhang. Expensive option though
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 14th Sep 17, 6:47 PM
    • 2,957 Posts
    • 5,406 Thanks
    EachPenny
    For example if you google "MZA planning Crossover appeal" you can see a case study of a driveway approved recently which is clearly under 4.2m depth

    Great images of the bollards , definitely something I want to avoid unless I want my own article in the Daily Mail
    Originally posted by the_midnight_Wolfboy
    The MZA case study is a planning case which, if the title of the thread is correct, is not relevant to your case.

    It is important to understand the difference between the need for planning consent, building regulations, and dropped-kerb consent. You may need all three to get off-street parking, and all involve different processes.

    The planning consent would relate to the actual driveway area where you park the car. The dropped kerb (and footway alterations) are on highway land which are not overed by any planning consent (or permitted development rights) you have for your driveway.

    The dropped kerb is a highways issue, and in terms of conditions, each authority makes and enforces its own rules. If you believe it has misapplied its own rules then follow the council's complaints procedure and take it to the Local Government Ombudsman. But you won't win just because you don't agree with the rules. MZA are referring to a planning application which a Planning Inspector will consider under appeal - it is not relevant if you've not made a planning application. A Planning Inspector cannot normally overrule a council's decision not to provide a dropped kerb.

    Note the glum expressions of the people in the pictures....

    There's a pair of semi detached houses on the corner of my street that was built in the last 5 years - no way are they ten meters from the junction... I wonder how that got through? Am off to nose at the planning documents now...!
    Originally posted by KittenChops
    Different council, different rules?

    I am considering installing a car turntable in my drive...
    Maybe this could be a solution for you. You may be able to convince the planning people that you can exit your drive in first gear and also turn it to be parallel with the road/house when parked in your drive, avoiding overhang. Expensive option though
    Originally posted by angelin77
    Long-term it might be cheaper for the OP simply to move house. On top of installation there will be maintenance and replacement costs - and when they come to sell the property there will be something 'unusual' in the front garden to spook potential purchasers and their mortgage company.

    Again, it is important to understand this is a highways issue, not planning. Although constructing a turntable may require additional planning and building control consents.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 14th Sep 17, 10:52 PM
    • 9,059 Posts
    • 11,993 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    I am considering installing a car turntable in my drive. I live on a very busy A road and the turntable is the only realistic way I can spin my car to go out of my drive in forward gear. I have seen turntables priced at about £5500 for a 3,8 diameter one (manual) Maybe this could be a solution for you. You may be able to convince the planning people that you can exit your drive in first gear and also turn it to be parallel with the road/house when parked in your drive, avoiding overhang. Expensive option though
    Originally posted by angelin77
    There's another way:. Reverse in.
    • KittenChops
    • By KittenChops 15th Sep 17, 7:28 AM
    • 75 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    KittenChops
    Different council, different rules
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Different council, same rules.
    • D6TMC
    • By D6TMC 23rd Nov 17, 12:12 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    D6TMC
    Hi there I have a similar situation I've recently bought a house that needs a lot of work, parking is horrendous, I've created off road parking area at the front of my end Terrance house, I've applied for a dropped kerb and been denied, apparently my drive is 8 inches too short (200mm). The council claim new regs requires 4.8 meters. I'm going to appeal as all of my neighbors have dropped kerbs, I have the deepest drive out the lot, 5 doors up the road the rear end of cars partially block the foot path. Can anyone offer advice on how I should appeal.
    Thank you
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 23rd Nov 17, 12:40 AM
    • 5,384 Posts
    • 4,734 Thanks
    00ec25
    Can anyone offer advice on how I should appeal.
    Originally posted by D6TMC
    Dear Sirs, I know I do not meet the current rules, but that means my life is ruined, so please ignore or re-write the rules so I can do what I want.
    PS whilst you are at it, please solve the national debt and feed anyone who is hungry.
    • RobertoMoir
    • By RobertoMoir 23rd Nov 17, 7:20 AM
    • 3,373 Posts
    • 4,100 Thanks
    RobertoMoir
    I've applied for a dropped kerb and been denied, apparently my drive is 8 inches too short (200mm). The council claim new regs requires 4.8 meters. I'm going to appeal as all of my neighbors have dropped kerbs, I have the deepest drive out the lot, 5 doors up the road the rear end of cars partially block the foot path. Can anyone offer advice on how I should appeal.
    Thank you
    Originally posted by D6TMC
    What others have done in the past isn’t really relevant to new regs. Your options are, imho, verifying that “what the council claim” is accurate and there isn’t a caveat that would help you, and ensuring your drive is accurately measured, if this would get you over the limit.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 23rd Nov 17, 12:13 PM
    • 3,127 Posts
    • 4,334 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Hi there I have a similar situation I've recently bought a house that needs a lot of work, parking is horrendous, I've created off road parking area at the front of my end Terrance house, I've applied for a dropped kerb and been denied, apparently my drive is 8 inches too short (200mm). The council claim new regs requires 4.8 meters. I'm going to appeal as all of my neighbors have dropped kerbs, I have the deepest drive out the lot, 5 doors up the road the rear end of cars partially block the foot path. Can anyone offer advice on how I should appeal.
    Thank you
    Originally posted by D6TMC
    You bought a house that needs a lot of work but you didn't bother to check the rules on dropped kerbs BEFORE you bought it. Why not? Not all houses can have dropped kerbs anyway without the change of rules. Cars have got bigger over the years. Rules change. The best thing you can do is to sell the house and buy one that already has a dropped kerb.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 23rd Nov 17, 12:35 PM
    • 2,957 Posts
    • 5,406 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Different council, same rules.
    Originally posted by KittenChops
    Unless it is something which is specified in legislation, or very strongly recommended in national guidance, then each Highway Authority is free to set its own rules, and furthermore to make exemptions from its own rules if circumstances dictate.

    I don't know the details of the two councils involved but it is possible that one applies "a not within 10m" rule and the other one doesn't.

    I've never seen anything in legislation which would require a council to operate an absolute "a not within 10m" rule... but happy to learn something new if anyone can identify the source of that requirement.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 23rd Nov 17, 12:41 PM
    • 4,588 Posts
    • 6,016 Thanks
    spadoosh
    I saw quite a novel solution to this.

    Someone had bought rounded garden edging (like this) cut it in half and placed it where there wheels would go.

    Well i say it was them, im guessing they happened to wake up one day and they had appeared. I dont think youd be able to it deliberately but you might get lucky and find some in front of your drive?
    Don't be angry!
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 23rd Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    • 4,588 Posts
    • 6,016 Thanks
    spadoosh
    The best thing you can do is to sell the house and buy one that already has a dropped kerb.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Clearly best is very subjective. I would say the best thing to do would be to just drive up the kerb as opposed to risk losing thousands of pounds selling a house after i just bought it.
    Don't be angry!
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 23rd Nov 17, 12:53 PM
    • 6,134 Posts
    • 5,882 Thanks
    davidmcn
    Clearly best is very subjective. I would say the best thing to do would be to just drive up the kerb as opposed to risk losing thousands of pounds selling a house after i just bought it.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    The trouble is you might not be able to "just drive up the kerb" if the council think the road is for other people to park on. Or if they stick a piece of street furniture in front of your "driveway".
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 23rd Nov 17, 1:01 PM
    • 3,505 Posts
    • 2,933 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    While I can understand it's frustrating, I'm glad councils are clamping down on this.
    The amount of tiny driveways around here with a stupid Audi Q7 / Range Rover / some long Mercedes blocking half of the pavement is ridiculous.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 23rd Nov 17, 1:04 PM
    • 9,059 Posts
    • 11,993 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    My question is what can I do, not please give me condescending retrospective drivel....
    Originally posted by the_midnight_Wolfboy
    What can you do? Deal with it. SUMO!
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/S-u-m-o-Shut-Move-Straight-talking-Anniversary/dp/0857086227

    Many times in my life I've found I've not be able to get what I want: I'm sure most people have. Hey, I'm very grateful for what I do have. Lovely family, wife, great kids, their partners & grandchildren, unlikely to starve (pensions), still able to do most things (age 69). Lucky, privileged me. I'm sure you have many wonderful things to be thankful for.

    No offence but there are many much, much, worse problems facing many of millions people: Daily.

    If this response appears to be condescending retrospective drivel, well, a learning point for me to improve on. I look forward to your feedback so I may learn from it.
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 23-11-2017 at 1:09 PM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 23rd Nov 17, 1:05 PM
    • 15,496 Posts
    • 13,827 Thanks
    AdrianC
    While I can understand it's frustrating, I'm glad councils are clamping down on this.
    The amount of tiny driveways around here with a stupid Audi Q7 / Range Rover / some long Mercedes blocking half of the pavement is ridiculous.
    Originally posted by mattyprice4004
    This, with bells on.

    The 4.2m required minimum is not even long enough to park a current Ford Focus (4,358mm). It's barely long enough for a current Fiesta (4,040mm) - the OP's 4,110mm drive is going to allow just 70mm before the car protrudes. Who's planning on touch-parking their car every time? Nobody...
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 23rd Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    • 3,875 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    sheramber
    cAn you set the drive at an angle to go along in front of the house, thus extending the length.
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