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  • FIRST POST
    • Dollshouse
    • By Dollshouse 14th Sep 17, 11:57 AM
    • 23Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Dollshouse
    County court advice needed
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:57 AM
    County court advice needed 14th Sep 17 at 11:57 AM
    I have a few days before the deadline for sending an Acknowledgement of service and I need to decide whether or not to defend.


    I don!!!8217;t want to give out identifying details because I am gathering evidence and don!!!8217;t want to alert the claimant about my defence until I have to. So I will explain the basic facts without giving away too much.


    The driver was visiting a friend in a town some distance away and they went into town in the evening. She told the driver to park in a private car park which she was convinced was a free car park in the evening. When the driver returned to the car a Notice of Parking Charge was stuck to the windscreen. Working on out-of-date information it was thrown away. When paperwork arrived at my home address I threw it all away (I know, I know, you don!!!8217;t need to say it). Now I have a County Court claim against me.


    Because I have none of the paperwork I think my defence will have to rely entirely on the signs at the car park. I think I have a very strong case but and I want advice on whether or not I can win.


    There is a prominent notice at the entrance to the car park that indicates it is a free customer car park. The car park is unlit but there are street lights on the street at the front. There are the fairly standard private car park notices further back in the car park. The trump card seems to me to be the sign saying it!!!8217;s a free car park. The lettering of the word !!!8216;free!!!8217; is about 95mm high, the sign is at the entrance is at eye level and positioned where headlights hit it at night. The car was parked just inside the entrance after dark and no other signs were looked at before parking.


    There are private car park notices around the car park but these are all further back and all in positions where headlights would not hit them. They all have lettering much smaller than the big !!!8216;free!!!8217; sign at the entrance.


    I have been and had a close look at all the signs and there are other contradictions in the signs. I have been told that it used to be a free car park and they have put up new signs but left the old signs in place.


    The new signs say: Terms and conditions ... Pay and Display ... breach of any term or condition will result in ... charge of £***... By entering or remaining on this land you agree to abide by all of the terms and conditions. In the middle of all the small print in letters 6mm high it says. Terms and conditions apply 24hrs a day... that is the only indication that they expect payment 24hrs a day.
    I don!!!8217;t know if it matters but there are two sets of terms and condition on display. One set is in small print on the new signs and another set is more prominent and in much bigger lettering which I assume is from an earlier time and which make no mention of payment. Is that relevant? It does say on the new small sign that you have to abide by all terms and conditions.


    The friend knew it was a paying car park during the day but assumed it was free when the payment kiosk was not manned. I have spoken to another local who told me he also assumed it was free when the kiosk was closed and that he often parks there on Sundays without paying.


    I am still gathering evidence and now have, including me, four witnesses who are willing to make written statements.


    It seems to me that I have a very strong argument but I have doubts. I can!!!8217;t believe they would be so stupid to try and take me to court if their case was so weak. Is their case weak or am I being niave?


    I have trawled through stuff on this forum and it all looks very complicated. My case seems very simple and straightforward to me but other defences on here have a large number of points. If I decide to defend would I really need to write such a long and complicated defence in such a short time?
    Last edited by Dollshouse; 15-09-2017 at 9:02 AM.
Page 3
    • Dollshouse
    • By Dollshouse 5th Oct 17, 5:14 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Dollshouse
    They aren't claiming against the keeper, they are claiming against the driver and/or the keeper.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 5:18 PM
    • 34,575 Posts
    • 18,562 Thanks
    Quentin
    Do they know who was driving??
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 17, 12:41 AM
    • 54,129 Posts
    • 67,793 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They aren't claiming against the keeper, they are claiming against the driver and/or the keeper.
    Originally posted by Dollshouse
    We know, these firms always do, when they haven't a clue who was driving. But you are best defending as keeper, and your case is no different in that respect than others.

    I don't have the NTK so I don't know whether or not it was worded correctly or served correctly.
    You will see the NTK in their evidence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dollshouse
    • By Dollshouse 21st Dec 17, 11:23 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Dollshouse
    Thank you to everyone who gave advice.

    The case was allocated to a court and a date set for the hearing then the case was struck out because the claimant did not comply with the order. Can I claim costs and if so how much can I claim?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Dec 17, 11:32 PM
    • 1,723 Posts
    • 1,941 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You can try. Post 2 newbies thread, yet again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Dec 17, 11:58 PM
    • 54,129 Posts
    • 67,793 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thank you to everyone who gave advice.

    The case was allocated to a court and a date set for the hearing then the case was struck out because the claimant did not comply with the order. Can I claim costs and if so how much can I claim?
    Originally posted by Dollshouse
    Have a look at the costs schedule and this thread which was right next to yours on page one:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73559611#post73559611

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dollshouse
    • By Dollshouse 22nd Dec 17, 9:50 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Dollshouse
    Thank you Coupon-mad for a good response. I would never have found that if you didn't post a link to it. I've read through the thread by Pepperlini that you linked to and the answer to my question is that I am not automatically entitled to claim costs. I could try to claim costs on the grounds that the claimant has acted unreasonably but that would take many hours of work and would be very unlikely to be successful.

    What makes me angry about the way these rogues operate is that it has made me waste a great deal of time and caused me stress. If I try to claim and am unsuccessful it would make me feel worse than I feel already so I'm not going to do it but I am going to follow what happens with Pepperlini.

    I still want to do my bit for the victims and hit back at the parking rogues so I am going to try something else which I think just might punish them more than claiming costs.
    • Dollshouse
    • By Dollshouse 22nd Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Dollshouse
    You can try. Post 2 newbies thread, yet again.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    The answer to my question is not in the Newby thread.

    There is a culture within the parking section of the forum of repeatedly pointing people at the Newby thread which to me is as tedious as people asking questions that are in the Newby thread. I think people are probably often irritated by this when they ask a question after having spent time trawling through the parking section of the forum including the Newby thread and looked in other places online before deciding to ask a question.

    If you don't know the answer to a question and think that it might be in the Newby thread somewhere but you can't be bothered making sure then don't point somebody at the Newby thread.

    If you know that the answer to a question is in the Newby thread then why not do something helpful and post a link to exactly where it is. Be a bit more sympathetic to people who are really fed up already that they are having to waste a load of time. When people are fighting a case they will be looking in other places as well as this forum and for me at least this forum is the last resort because it is chaotic and has no systematic organisation and searching for advice is very frustrating.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Dec 17, 3:28 PM
    • 54,129 Posts
    • 67,793 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's because replying to all the posts asking the same thing are simply not something we can sustain.

    Posting a link is really not needed and wasn't needed in the link I gave you either, I just provided it as a one-off (very unlike me, I hate posting links). The thread I linked you to, was right next to yours - literally next on the thread list under yours last night - and you could easily have found it (honestly).

    Posting a link helps no-one because people don't know where it come from or how to use the forum without it. Because of the nature of what we do here, newbies have to be able to use the forum well.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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