Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 14th Sep 17, 11:49 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 11Thanks
    StanHowe
    BW Legal - Offer Letter to Settle
    • #1
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:49 AM
    BW Legal - Offer Letter to Settle 14th Sep 17 at 11:49 AM
    Good afternoon,

    I have been in dispute with BW Legal over the last few months regarding a PCN issued to me on 23/04/2014.

    We have gone through the process of DQ and allocation to my local court etc.

    However BW Legal have sent me a letter stating that they believe 'my defence is unlikely to succeed' and are offering to settle for £165 rather than £275.

    Can I counter offer?

    Why would they send this letter if they have a good chance of winning in court and get more money ?

    They allege I 'left the leisure park and parked in a restricted area'.

    My defense is based on a few things:

    1. Clear signs not provided to show the boundaries of the leisure park in Middlesbrough (since this date signs have been erected to inform where the boundaries are!) I went to visit a friend in a pub opposite the cinema (thought it was part of the 'leisure park')
    2. Signs not present to clearly state PCN will be enforced and how much
    3. PCN from Excel Parking doesn't show where I was parked illustrated by a drawing on the reverse side by an attendant
    4. They have no proof I was the driver of the vehicle at the time only pictures of my vehicle


    Can I get some advice on what I should do?

    Essentially I am willing to counter offer or pay the £165 if you think my defense is rubbish.

    Thanks.
    Stan.
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 14th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • 7,301 Posts
    • 7,457 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    if you have photographic evidence that no signage was in place , and indeed signage was added after your appeal , then stick to your guns and let them be ridiculed in court , that fact that signage was added later shows the failing of there system in operation
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 14th Sep 17, 11:58 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:58 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:58 AM
    Hey pappa golf,

    They had main signage up, however the text is really really small, especially regarding the issue of PCN. I dont think this complies with signange policy and this is part of my defence.

    The new signs state what shops/restaurants etc are part of the 'leisure park'. Why would these be added if it wasnt clear?

    Thanks.
    Stan.
    Last edited by StanHowe; 14-09-2017 at 12:05 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    • 510 Posts
    • 607 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    EXACTLY! which is what pappa golf was saying

    Adding more signage after undermines them. It shows they had a belief that the existing signage was NOT sufficient. if it were, why would they add more?

    If it previously did not indicate the boundary, and now does, again - helps you.

    Counter offer - drop hands, both sides bears tehir costs to date, as long as they discontinue within say 7 calendar days. Without prejudice except as to costs.

    BW are hopeless.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 14th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    • 2,420 Posts
    • 3,654 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    BW Legal have sent me a letter stating that they believe 'my defence is unlikely to succeed' and are offering to settle for £165 rather than £275.

    If they really thought that "your defence is unlikely to succeed" why would they make the reduced offer, sounds more like a last ditch attempt to get you to pull out so they still get something.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Sep 17, 12:28 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 7,709 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:28 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:28 PM
    Stan, get into the mindset of these scammers

    "However BW Legal have sent me a letter stating that they believe 'my defence is unlikely to succeed' and are offering to settle for £165 rather than £275."

    Why would they lose £110 if they thought you were unlikely
    to succeed ?????

    They actually think you are likely to succeed and they will lose.

    You must let a judge decide and don't fall into this trap

    Make sure your costs schedule is ready for the judge
    when you win
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 14th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:37 PM
    Really appreciate all of the replies. A lot of the points presented were running through my head, I just needed some further opinions to backup what I was thinking.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    • 510 Posts
    • 607 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    If you intend to put in a counteroffer of drop hands, I would be minded to include the costs schedule you plan to submit to the court IF they dont accept your offer.
    If they have behaved unreasonably, under rule CPR27.14(s)(g) (READ IT!) you can ask for higher costs, including your time at either LIP rate of £19ph OR could try for 50% of a band D fee earner, or about £60ph....that shoudl give them pause.
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 14th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    If you intend to put in a counteroffer of drop hands, I would be minded to include the costs schedule you plan to submit to the court IF they dont accept your offer.
    If they have behaved unreasonably, under rule CPR27.14(s)(g) (READ IT!) you can ask for higher costs, including your time at either LIP rate of £19ph OR could try for 50% of a band D fee earner, or about £60ph....that shoudl give them pause.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    I will bear this in mind, however at this point, I feel that my defence has enough substantiated points to succeed. I will be double checking all of my paperwork tonight and review my defense to ensure it is air tight.
    Last edited by StanHowe; 14-09-2017 at 4:30 PM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 14th Sep 17, 1:02 PM
    • 2,020 Posts
    • 2,441 Thanks
    waamo
    They make an offer like this when they know they are on a hiding to nothing. If you decline their offer they often discontinue the court case to avoid costs.
    This space for hire.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 14th Sep 17, 1:56 PM
    • 889 Posts
    • 1,867 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Stick to your guns. It's likely they'll discontinue - they usually do a few days after they've offered to settle.

    When reviewing your docs tonight be sure to check for correct, UK, spelling... It's "defence" not "defense"
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 19th Sep 17, 9:20 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    OK, so a final update on my case.

    They did end up sending the notice to discontinue and have filed this with the court.

    It just goes to show, if you file a decent defense and have valid points they will back down!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 19th Sep 17, 9:34 AM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 7,709 Thanks
    beamerguy
    OK, so a final update on my case.

    They did end up sending the notice to discontinue and have filed this with the court.

    It just goes to show, if you file a decent defense and have valid points they will back down!
    Originally posted by StanHowe
    Of course, the typical BWLegal wheeze

    BWLegal is like a bad book, with only a few pages inside

    Tell your friends about this forum, great for motorists and
    very bad for scammers
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Sep 17, 9:54 AM
    • 14,636 Posts
    • 23,033 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Time to send a costs order request to the court.
    Liability for costs. Unless the court orders otherwise, a claimant who discontinues is liable for the costs which a defendant against whom the claimant discontinues incurred on or before the date on which notice of discontinuance was served on the defendant.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part38
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 19th Sep 17, 10:03 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    Of course, the typical BWLegal wheeze

    BWLegal is like a bad book, with only a few pages inside

    Tell your friends about this forum, great for motorists and
    very bad for scammers
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    Yes indeed, I feel like going on a social media rampage!

    Time to send a costs order request to the court.
    Liability for costs. Unless the court orders otherwise, a claimant who discontinues is liable for the costs which a defendant against whom the claimant discontinues incurred on or before the date on which notice of discontinuance was served on the defendant.
    justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part38
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    This is very interesting, I was reading this when I received my Notice to Discontinue.

    I am not sure what I could class as costs aside from Postage? I'll check out 44.9 here justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part-44-general-rules-about-costs
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Sep 17, 10:27 AM
    • 7,011 Posts
    • 6,083 Thanks
    The Deep
    But what costs? Time spent reading the applicable law? Time and mileage to visit site and phot0graphing the signs? Time spent preparing an appeal? Time spent writing to the landowner? Time spent preparing a witness statement and defence?


    They have lied to you. They have cost you considerable time. they have tried to obtain from you sums to which they have no legal entitlement, and, no doubt, caused you a modicum of a modicum of stress. Go for the jugular.
    Last edited by The Deep; 19-09-2017 at 10:34 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 19th Sep 17, 10:28 AM
    • 2,308 Posts
    • 2,815 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    Well done

    ......as part of your rampage ......

    try your MP

    this is a copy of a post by Bargepole ....

    "Some action at last:

    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.

    Now would be a good time to write to your MP urging them to support it."

    let here know that there have been many complaints about this car park scam

    he/ she may well help intervene

    good luck

    Ralph
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 19th Sep 17, 1:33 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    But what costs? Time spent reading the applicable law? Time and mileage to visit site and phot0graphing the signs? Time spent preparing an appeal? Time spent writing to the landowner? Time spent preparing a witness statement and defence?


    They have lied to you. They have cost you considerable time. they have tried to obtain from you sums to which they have no legal entitlement, and, no doubt, caused you a modicum of a modicum of stress. Go for the jugular.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    You make some valid points, I have spent around 4-5 hours reading the law alone.

    Part 44.4 (3)(f) of the General Rules of Costs is "time spent on the case"

    Is there a standard form for this? I've tried searching MSE forum (costs order request) but no luck?

    Well done

    ......as part of your rampage ......

    try your MP

    this is a copy of a post by Bargepole ....

    "Some action at last:

    Removed Link - Stupid Error

    This Private Member's Bill has Government and cross-party support, and stands a good chance of making it into statute.

    The full text of the clauses will be published nearer the date of the second reading, but my sources tell me it's something we should support.

    Now would be a good time to write to your MP urging them to support it."

    let here know that there have been many complaints about this car park scam

    he/ she may well help intervene

    good luck

    Ralph
    Originally posted by Ralph-y
    I will definitely look into this. This is great news in preventing them trying to bully or con people.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Sep 17, 1:46 PM
    • 50,186 Posts
    • 63,577 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hooray, so happy to hear about the discontinuance (the offer to settle was a big clue!). Now we hope you can claim those costs!

    Here's how Bluetoffee1878 did it:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72966188#post72966188

    and a Solicitor who posts here, LoadsofChildren123, wrote a longer version she links here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72799488#post72799488

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 19th Sep 17, 1:54 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    Hooray, so happy to hear about the discontinuance (the offer to settle was a big clue!). Now we hope you can claim those costs!

    Here's how Bluetoffee1878 did it:

    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72966188#post72966188

    and a Solicitor who posts here, LoadsofChildren123, wrote a longer version she links here:

    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72799488#post72799488

    HTH
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you so much coupon, big props to you and everyone else that helps people with these issues.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,774Posts Today

7,549Users online

Martin's Twitter