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  • FIRST POST
    • chad888
    • By chad888 13th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 14Thanks
    chad888
    Court Date Tomorrow vs Gladstones
    • #1
    • 13th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    Court Date Tomorrow vs Gladstones 13th Sep 17 at 9:22 AM
    I had court for this case back in June time but i never signed my witness statement, so the CCJ adjourned the case and gave me 2 weeks to resubmit my evidence and the witness statement signed, which i did.

    Trial is tomorrow 10am in Bham court. I am getting really nervous now though, that i will lose and be made to pay for there costs for 2 court dates., after all the news of parking companies winning tens of thousands in court.

    The case was for 2 parking tickets, in 2015, one i overstayed for 11 minutes, one i overstayed for 40 minutes in a free car park, no ticketing system, just ANPR.

    My key points were:

    A) The contract that Horizon have submitted in there evidence is between them and an agent, there is no chain of contracts between the land owner and the agent/Horizon.

    B) The contract between the agent and Horizon states Horizon will issue parking charges after 4 hours plus a 20 minute grace period, therefore the stay for 11 minutes is within that 4 hrs 20 mins and they have no right to bring the claim.

    C) They have added charges for additional legal fees of £50 but the sign does not state this.

    D) There are 4 signs throughout the 700 car carpark with parking terms and they are so wordy and full of writing that it is impossible to read when in a hurry.

    E) The signs are all facing the road, so that you have to stand in 2 lanes of traffic to read them and the T&Cs

    F) The entry signs are around 6ft off the ground and can be obscured by tall vehicle so are easily missable as is shown in the google map image i have of a truck unloading in front of the sign and completely blocking it from view

    G) The private land sign is obscured by glare from the direction that the sun rises and is made worse when wet, as shown by the google map image and the conditions are the same as the parking fine day as shown by the ANPR picture.

    H) The Gladstones representatives right to be there (i read that the only people who can defend a case are a representative of either Horizon or Gladstones, but the guy they sent last time was just an local lawyer that they had hired the day before to attend the trial.


    As well as the above, I have had to take 2 days off work for these trials and administered petrol and parking charges, which i have kept the reciept for. How would i claim these back if i win?
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Sep 17, 9:31 AM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,420 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 17, 9:31 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 17, 9:31 AM
    The contract between the agent and Horizon states Horizon will issue parking charges after 4 hours plus a 20 minute grace period, therefore the stay for 11 minutes is within that 4 hrs 20 mins and they have no right to bring the claim.
    Why are you worried then - surely they are hoisted by their own petard?!

    The Gladstones representatives right to be there (i read that the only people who can defend a case are a representative of either Horizon or Gladstones, but the guy they sent last time was just an local lawyer that they had hired the day before to attend the trial.
    Gladstones never turn up. It will be a rep again and your first task is to ask the Usher who has signed in for the 'other side' and then introduce yourself and ask their name and whether they work for the parking company or Gladstones themselves, if not, then attack their right of audience by handing the Usher a 'preliminary matters' document to hand to the Judge at the start, with the Law Gazette article & case law discussed on lots of threads and by the Parking Prankster.

    If the Judge is interested in that and asks if you object to the rep, say yes, but another adjournment would be a waste of the Court's time so, as the Claimant has not turned up (nor their Solicitors, nor anyone with conduct of the case in law, who is an exempt person) then you believe the claim should be struck out as the Claimant had plenty of time to prepare and is using a Solciitor but hasn't bothered to turn up or send their Solicitor, nor the person who wrote their 'Witness Statement'.

    If the Judge isn't interested at all, move swiftly on to each point of your defence, and also highlight the discrepancies in the other sides' photos, evidence and Witness Statement by a person who has never even been to the car park!

    As well as the above, I have had to take 2 days off work for these trials and administered petrol and parking charges, which i have kept the reciept for. How would i claim these back if i win?
    You take with you, proof of earnings (wage slip,s, etc.) and a prepared Costs Schedule - example in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

    Prepare that Schedule today, and email it to Gladstones TODAY so they can't say they didn't see it. Take a couple of copies with you as well as all your file of everything, neatly sorted so you can work through it in the 20 that might be allowed...

    Worst case scenario, if you feel you might somehow lose, point out as a last gasp, that the 'added indemnity costs' are just figures made up from thin air and were not on the signs. And they can't be 'damages' on top of the inflated parking charge of £100, because the Supreme Court in Beavis found that the £85 parking charge there included a significant sum for profit already, because an automated PCN business model is inexpensive and costs no more than £15 odd to send a PCN and some template letters. So the £100 is already more than covering costs and profit (and certainly there is no loss to the operator). ParkingEye were only able to recover their £85, and that fits with the POFA (will of Parliament) where it says the only sum recoverable - disallowing double recovery - is the parking charge sum.

    Final tip, get there EARLY (half an hour early to park, security & see the Usher, etc.) and be polite and honest, the side with the moral high ground!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-09-2017 at 9:36 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Cottom888
    • By Cottom888 14th Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Cottom888
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Sep 17, 11:32 AM
    Judge has refused my claim for right of audience as the agent is a legal executive and was insturcted to attend by Gladstones. Despite the case law i presented.

    They also have removed the one claim from the record as it was within the time limit so i am facing one case.

    I mentioned that the signs were inadequate and there are only 4 and wholly unreadable so the judge attacked me saying "so what you thought you could just park for free".

    He has now told us to leave whilst he reads through our papers.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    What do you mean by removed the one claim? Has he struck out one of the claims or something? or one of the PCNs?

    Shame it sounds like you ID'd the driver. Horizon are a doddle to beat otherwise.
    • Cottom888
    • By Cottom888 14th Sep 17, 12:39 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Cottom888
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:39 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:39 PM
    I won the case!! Poor witness statement intelligently torn apart by me according to the DDJ.

    Id presented enough evidence in terms of sign location and content to say that the signs were poor quality and there was not enough of them to make me aware.

    Awarded £89 in costs for travel and loss of leave
    • StanHowe
    • By StanHowe 14th Sep 17, 12:45 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    StanHowe
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:45 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:45 PM
    Nice one Cottom, im proceeding to court with mine too. If you have any tips i'd love some help
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:46 PM
    Perfect!
    Their WS are usually awful, and massively hurt them.

    Good going

    Can you provide a full account later, with judge , case number etc? Its very helpful to others
    THe pArking Prankster would like to know as well
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,672 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 17, 12:48 PM
    I won the case!! Poor witness statement intelligently torn apart by me according to the DDJ.

    Id presented enough evidence in terms of sign location and content to say that the signs were poor quality and there was not enough of them to make me aware.

    Awarded £89 in costs for travel and loss of leave
    Originally posted by Cottom888
    Brilliant

    Gladstones bite the dust again

    Tell the Parking Prankster, he loves stories about the
    failings of Gladstones
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 14th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    • 885 Posts
    • 1,857 Thanks
    Lamilad
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 2:01 PM
    Great stuff, well done!

    Poor witness statement intelligently torn apart by me according to the DDJ.!
    Horizon.... You've been Gladstoned!!!
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 14th Sep 17, 2:06 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 866 Thanks
    safarmuk
    I won the case!! Poor witness statement intelligently torn apart by me according to the DDJ.
    Great result, well done indeed. You must be feeling pretty good about yourself right now.

    As all the above have said, a full account with DDJ name, Court location, name of Legal Exec etc. would be most helpful. Also if you could explain this it would be great too:
    They also have removed the one claim from the record as it was within the time limit so i am facing one case.
    I thought you might be in trouble and have got unlucky with DJ bingo at this point:
    I mentioned that the signs were inadequate and there are only 4 and wholly unreadable so the judge attacked me saying "so what you thought you could just park for free".
    but clearly after he read both sides papers he realised what you meant.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 17, 2:23 PM
    • 14,537 Posts
    • 22,879 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Nice good news story for today. Excellent result. Look forward to reading a fuller account once the euphoria subsides.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • bluetoffee1878
    • By bluetoffee1878 14th Sep 17, 2:26 PM
    • 217 Posts
    • 393 Thanks
    bluetoffee1878
    Well done - feels great doesn't it.

    Might be worth updating your thread title to indicate your win.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 17, 2:44 PM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,420 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hooray! Well done!

    We are looking forward to a court report about what made the Judge turn his view in your favour, what he liked about your WS & evidence.

    It's always good to know the Court, Judge's name and Claim number for future quoting by newbies. Also the location would be useful, in case the same place crops up again (which it will)!

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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