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  • FIRST POST
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:17 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 1Thanks
    lllc12
    Help! Court claim for private parking ticket from uk car park managment
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:17 PM
    Help! Court claim for private parking ticket from uk car park managment 12th Sep 17 at 8:17 PM
    Hi, I have received a claim form from UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT and gladstoens for a parking ticket outside a flat with no permit. I was not the driver but don't want to name the driver, any help?
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 8:19 PM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:19 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:19 PM
    Hi, I have received a claim form from UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT and gladstoens for a parking ticket outside a flat with no permit. I was not the driver but don't want to name the driver, any help?
    Originally posted by lllc12
    "A flat" ??? explain more
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    It is acknowledged that the defendant, xxxxxxxxxx is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

    2. It is denied that any "parking charges or indemnity costs" (whatever they might be) as stated on the Particulars of claim are owed and any debt is denied in it's entirety. The date of the alleged incident is xxxx


    3. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012) which came into force in October 2012 is the only legislation currently available allowing a private parking firm to hold a registered keeper liable. From the limited information provided by the particulars of claim, it can be seen the date of the alleged incident is xxxxxx which predates the enactment of PoFA 2012. This being the case, the claimant cannot surely hold the registered keeper liable, only the driver, of which no evidence has been produced. This distinguishes the case from Elliot vs Loake, in which there was irrefutable evidence of the drivers identity. Further, Elliot v Loake was a criminal case, which has no bearing on a civil matter, as Elliot was prosecuted for S.172, which cannot apply here.
    PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability, "There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort" (POPLA report 2015).

    4. The claim form itself is vague and lacks pertinent information as to the grounds for the claimant’s case. The particulars of claim fail to meet CPR16.4 and PD16 7.3-7.5 and merely provide a date, due date, and an "amount" consisting of a completely unsubstantiated and inflated three-figure sum, vaguely and incoherently adduced by the claimant's solicitors.
    The claim also states "parking charges and indemnity costs if applicable" which gives no indication of on what basis the claim is brought, for example whether this charge is founded upon an allegation of trespass or 'breach of contract' or contractual 'unpaid fees'.
    Because of this, I have had to cover all eventualities in defending such a 'cut & paste' claim which has caused significant distress and has denied me a fair chance to defend this claim in an informed way.
    Therefore, as an unrepresented litigant-in-person I respectfully ask that I be permitted to amend and or supplement this interim defence as may be required following a fuller disclosure of the Claimant's case.

    5. The Claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action.
    HMCTS have identified over 1000 similar poorly produced claims and the solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject of an active investigation by the SRA.
    I believe the term for such conduct is ‘robo-claims’ which is against the public interest, demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on unrepresented consumers.
    I have reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.

    6. I am yet to have knowledge of all documents provided to the court in support of the application, despite sending a CPR 31.14 request to the claimant's solicitors on xxxxx
    Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to UK CAR PARK MANAGMENT LTD, and no proof has been provided.

    7. In the pre court stage the Claimant’s solicitor refused to provide me with the necessary information I requested in order to defend myself against the alleged debt.
    They did not send me a Letter before Action that complied with the Practice direction on pre-action conduct. The Letter before Action can be seen to miss the following information
    a) A clear summary of facts on which the claim is based.
    b) A list of the relevant documents on which your client intends to rely.
    c) How the “charge amount” of 125 pounds has been calculated and justified.
    d) Any form of possible negotiation or ADR offered.

    8. I suggest that parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

    9. The alleged debt as described in the claim are unenforceable penalties, being just the sort of unconscionable charges exposed as offending against the penalty rule, in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

    10. This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes.
    Charges cannot exist merely to punish drivers. This claimant has failed to show any comparable 'legitimate interest' to save their charge from Lord Dunedin's four tests for a penalty, which the Supreme Court Judges found was still adequate in less complex cases, such as this allegation.

    11. It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.

    12. It is denied that there was any 'relevant obligation' or 'relevant contract' relating to any single parking event.

    13. It is denied that the signs used by this claimant can have created a fair or transparent contract with a driver in any event. The signs were insufficient in terms of their distribution, wording and lighting hence incapable of binding the driver, which distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    a) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) site/entrance signage - breach of the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    b) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    c) The signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
    d) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    e) Absent the elements of a contract, there can be no breach of contract.

    14. The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons.
    It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.
    As such, I am keeping a note of my wasted time/costs in dealing with this matter.

    15. I request the court strike out this claim for the reasons stated above, and for similar reasons cited by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 where a similar claim was struck out without a hearing, due to Gladstones' template particulars for a private parking firm being 'incoherent', failing to comply with CPR16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.

    Statement of Truth: I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:21 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:21 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:21 PM
    down a private road where I lived, however I did not have a permit, my car was not there long and I was not the driver. It was driven back from the garage as it had been broken down and the driver who is it not a friend did not know otherwise
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:26 PM
    I never had a parking ticket on my car, they must have taken a photo, the letters being sent were to my parents address, as many people do I ignored as I thought that was the best thing too do until it got to Gladstone's. Then I followed some threads and sent them letters but they never got back to me and I have just received a court claim now
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 8:27 PM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:27 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:27 PM
    down a private road where I lived, however I did not have a permit, my car was not there long and I was not the driver. It was driven back from the garage as it had been broken down and the driver who is it not a friend did not know otherwise
    Originally posted by lllc12
    OK, night time or day ?

    THE SIGNS what did the signs say ?

    Who is the PPC
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:39 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:39 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:39 PM
    the ppc is uk car park management company and it was at night
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    • #8
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:43 PM
    am I ok to post a photo of the sign on here or do they check these forums?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 8:46 PM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 PM
    the ppc is uk car park management company and it was at night
    Originally posted by lllc12
    Them again, they are becoming pests

    So if was dark, what about signs, were there any, can they easily
    be read at night, where are they located
    Last edited by beamerguy; 12-09-2017 at 8:49 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Sep 17, 8:46 PM
    • 4,468 Posts
    • 2,791 Thanks
    KeithP
    am I ok to post a photo of the sign on here or do they check these forums?
    Originally posted by lllc12
    Yes you can post a photo of a sign (taken at night without flash), and yes PPCs do monitor forums.
    .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 8:55 PM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Yes you can post a photo of a sign (taken at night without flash), and yes PPCs do monitor forums.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    good idea, no flash, just as a driver would not see them
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    so this is the view from where my car was parked at night
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 12th Sep 17, 9:03 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    how do I post pictures on here?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Sep 17, 9:05 PM
    • 4,468 Posts
    • 2,791 Thanks
    KeithP
    how do I post pictures on here?
    Originally posted by lllc12
    Host it somewhere else, e.g. tinypic, and post a link here.
    You won't be able to post a good link but just break it by changing http to hxxp.
    .
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 20th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    apolgies for the delay i have been away on holiday. I have taken photos of the view at night from where the car was parked and its near on impossible to see, the picture taken from of my car is also very vague and dark. You cant actually see my car parked there. I am still struggling to upload them as it says as I am a new user it wont let me.
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 20th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    ibb.co/doF99Q
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 20th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    ibb.co/kzzfG5
    • lllc12
    • By lllc12 20th Sep 17, 8:50 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lllc12
    ibb.co/m4QWOk
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 20th Sep 17, 8:53 AM
    • 6,340 Posts
    • 8,147 Thanks
    beamerguy
    http://ibb.co/doF99Q

    http://ibb.co/kzzfG5

    http://ibb.co/m4QWOk
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 20th Sep 17, 8:56 AM
    • 827 Posts
    • 948 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Have you ACKNOWLEDGED the court claim?
    If not you are fast running out of time
    If not, do it TODAY, ONLINE using the details given. You MUST do this to get the full 28 days plus 5 days from date of issue.

    Confirm issue date and confirm acknowlegdement.
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