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  • FIRST POST
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 12th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 7Thanks
    Jeff123
    CEL Ltd default CCJ! Pls help!
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    CEL Ltd default CCJ! Pls help! 12th Sep 17 at 1:52 PM
    Hello everybody.
    I am yet another victim of CEL ltd. Have received a ccj without knowledge of any wrong doing!
    I received a letter from the bank to check my credit file as they removed my overdraft. I logged in and found out that i have a ccj!
    I called the court, they don't have much information except the name of the company and their telephone details. The courts didn't even know what the judgment was about etc. I googled the company and found out that it is a private parking firm, tried to call them but no luck, only a payment automated line was available. Left a message on other line, it went on voicemail, left a message but not received any communication from them!
    Luckily i came across this website and found out that i am not the only one to have experienced this.
    The story goes, the alleged incident happened on 28th March 2016, i moved house on 15th April 2016, i had royal mail mail redirection setup for 3 months after that, and in all this time i haven't received any PCN from CEL, so have been totally unaware of this whole shebang, the judgement date was 27th March 2017 for £350.!
    I read Saggi's post and took info from their application to set aside the judgement. The hearing is on 2nd Oct.
    I need to know if anyone can point me to right direction, what to expect from the hearing etc.
    I have worked really hard to buildup my credit history, i used to have an excellent score but now it has gone to poor. I am really cross with them and want to ensure they end up paying for their ruthlessness.
    Any help/guidance would be appreciated.
Page 2
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 4:02 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Coupon-Mad This is what I have written to send to CEL Pls adv if it sounds sound. Thanks.

    Dear Sirs,

    RE: Claim number xxxxx of Civil Enforcement Limited Vs ( my details).

    On 27th March 2017, you obtained a default judgement against me ( the registered keeper of the car) in relation to an alleged contravention that happened on 28th March 2016.

    A court hearing was held on 2nd October 2017 at xxxxx county court, and I am pleased to inform you that the judge has decided to set aside the judgement.

    You have now 2 weeks starting from the hearing date to let myself and the court know
    All the details about this alleged contravention that took place on the 28th March 2016, together with all photographic evidence of my car.

    You must know that from 1st October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to all debt claims. The new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your claim lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2).

    Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must comply with the protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure to comply to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply, and when costs come to be considered.

    As a serial litigator of small claims, you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter. As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding to note that your company is sending court claims to innocent motorists in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including yourselves, are immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    (i) whether interest or other charges are continuing;
    (ii) where the debt arises from an oral agreement, who made the agreement, what was agreed (including, as far as possible, what words were used) and when and where it was agreed;
    (iii) where the debt arises from a written agreement, the date of the agreement, the parties to it and the fact that a copy of the written agreement can be requested from the creditor;
    (iv) where the debt has been assigned, the details of the original debt and creditor, when it was assigned and to whom;
    (v) details of how the debt can be paid (for example, the method of and address for payment) and details of how to proceed if the debtor wishes to discuss payment options;
    (vi) the address to which the completed Reply Form should be sent
    (vii)enclose a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form
    (viii) enclose a Financial Statement form.

    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on you and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until you have complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    You must know that I shall be seeking my costs back should you now not proceed, since this entire episode has been vexatious and unreasonable with a wholly misconceived claim against a registered keeper when You know full well you don't follow schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

    I am also enclosing a costs schedule for your information. I will be claiming at least this amount at any hearing.

    Schedule of costs:

    Set aside fee; £255.00

    Trust online fee to find out information about the CCJ; £10.00

    Research and preparation of defence as litigant in person @£19 per hour.
    10 hours. Total £190.00

    Printing of 3 copies of witness statement and skeleton argument and postage
    Estimate £25.00

    One day off work to attend hearing on 2nd October 2017 @£ 315 per day.
    £315.00

    Mileage driven and petrol costs to attend court and return
    £10.00

    Car parking on day of hearing on 25/3/15
    £2.50

    Total costs claimed £807.50



    Yours faithfully
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 4:04 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Can I also add compensation for causing distress etc?
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 4:06 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Hi Simon.
    I followed Saggi's template and the form was easy to fill. Attached both together and sent it to the court in triplicate (make sure), together with a cheque of £255.
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 4:09 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Beats me. I was hoping he would award the fee but he didn't. On the order I received today
    It states that' the costs of the application today are reserved.' What does that mean?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 4:16 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    Quentin
    The new protocol applies to claims issued from 1st October.


    But your claim predates that
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 4:23 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    Quentin
    Beats me. I was hoping he would award the fee but he didn't. On the order I received today
    It states that' the costs of the application today are reserved.' What does that mean?
    Originally posted by Jeff123
    They will be decided later (after the claim is dealt with and concluded)


    So have your costs listed should you have another hearing to attend and you win! (Or they back out!!)
    Last edited by Quentin; 05-10-2017 at 4:26 PM.
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 5th Oct 17, 5:34 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Now that I have received this order from the court, how do we get the ccj off my credit file?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Oct 17, 6:01 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    Quentin
    The court should have already notified the registry trust about the set aside.

    Check out your credit file and see if it's gone. If not get it corrected.
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 6th Oct 17, 7:54 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Feeling Fantastic!
    Got an email from credit referencing company to let me know
    that the ccj is removed!
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 7th Oct 17, 1:34 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Bit confused about what to write to CEL, pls advise. thanks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Oct 17, 12:41 PM
    • 582 Posts
    • 705 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    There’s nothing to write to cel

    That costs schedule is only applicable if you get a court to apply cpr27.14(2)(g) otherwise no time for defence, or costs about the set aside plus 95 for loss of earnings is likely to be awarded.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Oct 17, 1:56 PM
    • 7,191 Posts
    • 6,243 Thanks
    The Deep
    It is known that many judges are reluctant to award unreasonable behaviour costs, but, imo, in your case they are richly deserved. I would certainly press the matter very hard indeed.

    Applying for a CCJ eighteen months after the alleged debt without verifying the appellant's address is unreasonable, more so if you were on the electoral roll..

    Asking for £350 when they know that only £175 – £200 is allowable under POFA is not only unreasonable, but dishonesty verging on fraud.

    Failing to respond to your reasonable request for basic details of the alleged breach is unreasonable.

    Failing to attend the hearing is unreasonable.

    I would also add a small amount to the claim for stress.

    Did they have reasonable cause to apply to the DVLA, or don't you know that yet? . If they abandon the claim or you win you could consider going after them for DPA breaches, Make them pay heavily for their hubris..
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Oct 17, 2:07 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    Quentin
    Bit confused about what to write to CEL, pls advise. thanks
    Originally posted by Jeff123
    Until they comply with the item 2 of the court judgement you got you don't need to write to them


    You will need to send them a copy of your defence (which you can prepare if and when you get the particulars of claim from them)
    Last edited by Quentin; 08-10-2017 at 2:10 PM.
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 8th Oct 17, 9:30 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    I intend to take them to ask. It was really frightening to find my credit file had wrecked.
    And I will add to my cost schedule compensation for causing distress.
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 8th Oct 17, 9:36 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    I thought the judge asked me to write to CEL to ask for the details about this claim,
    but he has not put anything on his order.
    As per item 2, do they have to send me the details with proof etc by the 16th?
    What happens if I haven't heard from them by then?
    I am really sorry, my questions may sound dumb. I have not much knowledge about the court process etc.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th Oct 17, 10:26 PM
    • 530 Posts
    • 956 Thanks
    Johnersh
    As per item 2, do they have to send me the details with proof etc by the 16th? What happens if I haven't heard from them by then?
    You apply to the court with a witness statement setting out the events and the non compliance and ask for the claimants case to be struck out. You should also ask for the costs of both applications to be awarded to you - funnily enough a little more than the amount of their CCJ
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 14th Oct 17, 4:37 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    Hi everyone.
    Just an update.
    Called the courts yesterday. They haven't received anything from CEL yet. And I haven't received anything from them as well. The deadline is on 4pm on Monday.
    Any advise as to my options?
    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 14th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    I am away for a whole week next week. Don't want to miss my deadlines.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Oct 17, 11:13 PM
    • 50,789 Posts
    • 64,193 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Draft a letter as per Johnersh's advice, and ask a family member to send it on Monday if no letter arrives from CEL.

    If no-one will be at home to do that/check the post, then send the thing to the Judge anyway...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jeff123
    • By Jeff123 15th Oct 17, 9:08 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Jeff123
    I will draft my defence and post it online later today. I would appreciate it if you guys could kindly
    go through it and advise of any amendments.
    I am back on the 25th Oct. Wondering if I could deliver the letter to to the court by hand then.
    And put a copy in the post for CEL.
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