Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • ljmw
    • By ljmw 12th Sep 17, 10:31 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 0Thanks
    ljmw
    PCM, Trace & Gladstones
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:31 AM
    PCM, Trace & Gladstones 12th Sep 17 at 10:31 AM
    Hi guys,

    So I got two parking tickets in the space of a week for parking in a visitor bay down a residential road. There are a number of spaces clearly marked with large 'V' for Visitor, the rest are numbered which are assigned to the flats down that road.

    Both myself, my brother and friends of mine have previously had parking tickets and follow up notices from PCM (Parking Control Management UK Ltd) for parking in these spaces, which have not been followed up and is why I have ignored both of these notices until now. Worth noting that I still have no inclination to give in and pay.

    After a couple of letters from Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd suggesting "final demand for outstanding payment", I yesterday received a very generic looking letter from Gladstones Solicitors insisting that I make payment within 14 days or their client may instruct them to take legal action in a County Court. Now whilst I am adamant I do not want to give in and pay, I am conscious that this is getting a little more serious. That being said, having read your 'newbies' thread, I feel a little less threatened!

    Worth mentioning at this stage that my car is a private lease hire, and my lease company are aware of the tickets, but I am receiving correspondence directly from these companies now.

    Timeline of events is as follows:
    10th May 2017 - 1st Parking Ticket Issued
    17th May 2017 - 2nd Parking Ticket Issued
    15th June 2017 - Parking Charge Notice Received Via Lease Company (IRO 1st Ticket)
    23rd June 2017 - Parking Charge Notice Received Via Lease Company (IRO 2nd Ticket)
    23rd June 2017 - Parking Charge Notice Received Direct from PCM (IRO 1st Ticket)
    30th June 2017 - Parking Charge Notice Received Direct from PCM (IRO 2nd Ticket)
    18th July 2017 - Demand for Outstanding Payment Received from Trace (IRO 1st Ticket)
    4th August 2017 - Demand for Outstanding Payment Received from Trace (IRO 2nd Ticket)
    7th August 2017 - Second Final Demand Letter Received from Trace (IRO 1st Ticket)
    25th August 2017 - Second Final Demand Letter Received from Trace (IRO 2nd Ticket)
    11th September 2017 - Letter Received from Gladstones Solicitors (IRO 1st Ticket)

    (....I imagine that I may receive the same letter from Gladstones IRO the 2nd Ticket in the next week or so if the above pattern is to be followed.)

    Basically, just after some advice on what my next move is. Should I appeal, or now that it is with Gladstones, should I just ignore and it will go away?
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Sep 17, 8:17 PM
    • 50,660 Posts
    • 64,056 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    This isn't true of PCM, as such:
    When your company issues a 'parking charge' you do not use Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012, therefore you have no basis whatsoever to write to a registered keeper,
    ..but as your car is leased, I assume they wrote to the Lease Hire firm and were given your details as hirer/lessee? I hope no-one has written to say who was driving on any occasion (no weak appeal?).

    Worth mentioning at this stage that my car is a private lease hire, and my lease company are aware of the tickets, but I am receiving correspondence directly from these companies now.
    Because of the above, as long as the driver has not been evidenced, I would write more along the lines of one that talks about non-compliance with PoFA paragraph 13/14 of Schedule 4, like here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73054082#post73054082

    You'd need to amend it to be more robustly worded, and change the fact that one is aimed at a PPC not their solicitors.

    You could combine it with a line or two saying the letter is misleading, non-compliant with the CPR and discloses no cause of action. It is despicable that, with the CPR rules regarding pre-action protocol significantly changing only next week, so-called 'Gladstones solicitors' (aka the controlling minds behind the IPC Trade Body) are continuing with the same vague, vexatious robo-claims with no facts disclosed, no signage photos, nor terms nor evidence of the alleged 'breach of contract' provided, nor even the most basic checks having been done regarding any liability (or not, in this case) under the POFA for a lessee/hirer.

    and

    To Whom it may concern,
    should be

    Dear sirs,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 27-09-2017 at 10:40 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ljmw
    • By ljmw 27th Sep 17, 11:19 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ljmw
    ..but as your car is leased, I assume they write to the Lease Hire firm and were given your details as hirer/lessee? I hope no-one has written to say who was driving on any occasion (no weak appeal?).
    So I've spoken with my lease company and they have confirmed that they wrote a letter to PCM confirming that I am the lessee and that they switched liability to myself at that point. This was on June 23rd which is 37 days after the PCN was issued. However, at no point has there been any mention of who was driving the vehicle.

    I have revised my letter below. Feel like I'm gradually getting there, but might still need a few extra bullets...thoughts?


    Dear Sirs,

    Re – PCN xxxxxx
    Gladstones Ref: xxxxxxxx

    I strongly advice that the above PCN is cancelled. You have not provided any clear photographs evidencing that the vehicle in question was parked illegitimately or most pertinently who the actual driver of the vehicle was displaying numerous acts of non-compliance with PoFA paragraph 13/14 of Schedule 4. I imagine this is due to the face that the vehicle was in face parked legally in a visitor’s bay which you are reluctant to show evidence of, therefore breaching the Pre-Action Practice Definition.

    Breaches of the Pre-action Practice Direction (“the PD”):

    Paragraph 6 (c) oblige a Claimant to enter into a meaningful dialogue with a Defendant at an early stage by imposing specific obligations to:
    - provide relevant core documents.

    The letters received from Gladstones are misleading, non-compliant with the CPR and disclose no cause of action. It is despicable that, with the CPR rules regarding pre-action protocol significantly changing only next week, so-called 'Gladstones solicitors' (aka the controlling minds behind the IPC Trade Body) are continuing with the same vague, vexatious robo-claims with no facts disclosed, no signage photos, nor terms nor evidence of the alleged 'breach of contract' provided.

    Having been harassed by both debt collection firm Trace and more recently Gladstones Solicitors, there is no need to continue to try and add even more money to your already bogus claim. The invoice is between you and the driver of the vehicle, as you know I’m the hirer of the vehicle and it’s your duty to mitigate your losses and to not take unreasonable steps which may increase the loss (i.e. instructing a “debt collection agency” to send threatening letters as a scare tactic).

    I have no intention of paying the PCN Invoice, therefore there is now no reason for any further communication other than to confirm the cancellation of the PCN.

    If after 14 days of the date of this letter (11th October 2017) you have not filed a claim, my data must no longer be processed as it is causing me undue stress and harassment. This must be treated as a Section 10 (1) notice under the Data Protection Act 1998.

    You have 21 days (18th October 2017) to confirm that the processing has ceased, starting the day this notice is given.

    Yours faithfully,
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 27th Sep 17, 11:42 AM
    • 1,028 Posts
    • 2,045 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Firstly, do a thorough check of spelling and grammar. There are several mistakes.

    You have not provided any clear photographs evidencing that the vehicle in question was parked illegitimately or most pertinently who the actual driver of the vehicle was displaying numerous acts of non-compliance with PoFA paragraph 13/14 of Schedule 4
    Reword:

    "You have provided no evidence whatsoever that any contravention has occurred or who was driving at the material time. You have failed to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, specifically paragraphs 13 and 14. As such liability for any parking charge cannot be transferred from the driver to the hirer"
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 27th Sep 17, 11:47 AM
    • 1,028 Posts
    • 2,045 Thanks
    Lamilad
    breaches of the pre-action practice direction (“the pd”):
    practice direction – pre-action conduct and protocols

    I have no intention of paying the PCN Invoice, therefore there is now no reason for any further communication other than to confirm the cancellation of the PCN.
    "I deny liability for any charge and no payment will be made. Any court proceedings will be vigorously defended with costs sought. No further communication will be entered into. Do not contact me again save to confirm the PCN has been cancelled and your compliance with the section 10 notice (below)
    Last edited by Lamilad; 27-09-2017 at 11:56 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Sep 17, 10:42 PM
    • 50,660 Posts
    • 64,056 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I strongly advice that the above PCN is cancelled.
    'Advice' is a noun.

    Better to say:

    I require that the above PCN is cancelled.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ljmw
    • By ljmw 10th Oct 17, 10:33 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ljmw
    Morning guys and girls.

    So I received a response from PCM whilst away last week which says the following:

    "Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above PCN.

    We are unable to process your appeal as your case is with one of our external debt collection agencies or solicitors. You will now need to contact them regarding your case, all contact details for them can be found on previous correspondence they have sent you."

    They then proceed to provide me with the contact details for Debt Recovery Plus UK, Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd and Gladstones Solicitors, clearly indicating that this is a generic letter they have sent out as they don't even know who they assigned to the case.

    What is my move here? Obviously it seems as though I will have to send something to Gladstones now based on PCM's response. Should I send a similarly worded letter just addressed towards Gladstones?

    Thanks in advance.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    Hold off sending anything now and wait and see if you get a lbcca/court correspondence


    (As advised back in #2)
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Oct 17, 12:10 PM
    • 6,156 Posts
    • 7,867 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Morning guys and girls.

    So I received a response from PCM whilst away last week which says the following:

    "Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above PCN.

    We are unable to process your appeal as your case is with one of our external debt collection agencies or solicitors. You will now need to contact them regarding your case, all contact details for them can be found on previous correspondence they have sent you."

    They then proceed to provide me with the contact details for Debt Recovery Plus UK, Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd and Gladstones Solicitors, clearly indicating that this is a generic letter they have sent out as they don't even know who they assigned to the case.

    What is my move here? Obviously it seems as though I will have to send something to Gladstones now based on PCM's response. Should I send a similarly worded letter just addressed towards Gladstones?

    Thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by ljmw
    Bunch of idiots, so you can forget about DRP and Trace, both
    being rogue traders with no power whatsoever.

    If PCM are going to use Gladstones, before anything they
    have to contact you and then you deny the so called debt
    and request proof.

    Gladstones will have to jump through hoops before it
    goes the court.

    Just wait and ignore DRP and Trace
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • ljmw
    • By ljmw 11th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ljmw
    If PCM are going to use Gladstones, before anything they
    have to contact you and then you deny the so called debt
    and request proof.

    Gladstones will have to jump through hoops before it
    goes the court.

    Just wait and ignore DRP and Trace
    Just to be clear, I've already had letters from Gladstones, but I wrote to PCM to get them to cancel the charge, but they have essentially palmed it off as I mention in #26.

    Do you still advise that I ignore this? Or should I send a letter to Gladstones now instead?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Oct 17, 3:17 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,004 Thanks
    Quentin
    Assuming you haven't got any lbcca from Gladstone then this question was answered in #27
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

139Posts Today

1,470Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I was surprised to see the three people in front of me in the newsagents were all shocked their old £1 coins were no longer taken.

  • RT @natdebtline: If you?ve been visited by a bailiff since April 2014 we want to hear your story for our #bailiffreform campaign https://t.?

  • Well so far it seems there's one thing remainers and leavers agree on - the EU is getting the better of the negotia? https://t.co/70z5ffpG8S

  • Follow Martin