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  • FIRST POST
    • loisb501
    • By loisb501 12th Sep 17, 8:38 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    loisb501
    Help please- BW legal/VCS
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:38 AM
    Help please- BW legal/VCS 12th Sep 17 at 8:38 AM
    Hello

    I have been reading the forums trying to figure out the best way to deal with the below, any help would be greatly appreciated.

    My vehicle recieved 2 parking tickets within 3 days of each other in December, these were from an apparent private car park, however the driver was not aware of this as the signage was incredibly poor (pinned to a wall as you drive in but on the left hand side with no lighting, have only noticed now when i returned to check the carpark before sending my appeal). When the vehicle recieved both tickets i searched on the vcs website for the ticket ref- however nothing appeared, tickets were hand written in pencil.

    I drafted my original appeal using a template from the forum with a little added regarding the poor signage of the car park.

    They have now responded and I'm trying to think of the best way for to do so- this is where i am looking for advice.

    Their reply:

    Dear Madam

    We write in refrence to the above matter and your recent email dated 30 August 2017 and we detail our clients position below.

    Our clients claim is for the balance and is in relation to the monies and legal expenses owed pursuant to the parking charge notice ("PCN")

    The PCN contravention took place on 22nd December 2016 at Courthouse Square Dundee ("Car Park") where the vehicle bearing the registration number XXXX XXX ("the vehicle") parked without displaying a valid ticket. It is our client's position that it is the lawful occupier of the car park and enforces and manages the car park terms in a reasonable manor.

    We note your comments in relation to the singage at the car park. As established members of the independent parking committee, our client adheres to their code of practice for private enforcement on private land ans unregulated car parks ("code of practice"). This code of practice gives recommendations in regards to thr signage within the car park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the code of practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.

    It is irrelevant whether or not the charge as displayed bears any relation to the cost for parking. Our client relies on the leading authority of parkingeye v Bevis [2015] where the supreme court held that pcn charges, like this charge, serve a legitimate commercial interest. The relevant car parking codes of practice also give guidance that £100 is a reasonable sum to charge

    We note that you were not the driver at the time of contravention. We would be grateful if you could confirm the name and address of the driver in order that we may advise our client accordingly.

    Should you not provide the driver details we shal seek our clients instructions with regards to issuing court proceedings against you. If this matter does go to court a Scottish sheriff may order you to divulge driver details. If this happens you may have an order for costs made against you.

    We look forward ro receiving details of the driver within 14 days


    Any advice/help is gratefully recieved
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    • 14,562 Posts
    • 22,912 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    You are in Scotland so under no circumstances should you reveal the identity of the driver. You are under no legal or moral obligation to do so.

    As the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland there can be no keeper liability for the charge, only the driver can be liable. So if they don't know the driver, they're stumped.

    I'd ignore anything else that comes through on this with the exception of vanishingly unlikely court papers - which we've never seen in Scotland (other than that big case for £22k where there was serial abuse and the driver identified herself).

    You're pretty much bombproof north of the border.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    • 5,962 Posts
    • 7,682 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 9:44 AM
    Is this letter really from BWLegal ??? Oh WOW how pathetic

    The Beavis case was a claim for unfair charges which is not your
    case. BWL know this but still continue this out of date wheeze
    Pathetic

    The IPC which VCS belong to is a scam organistation and VCS
    have been caught out before with poor signage.
    When I say caught out .... whooped in court
    Pathetic

    "We would be grateful if you could confirm the name and address of the driver in order that we may advise our client accordingly."
    Pathetic
    None of their business who was driving ??? this is just a try on
    to trap you.

    They need to know who the driver is in Scotland

    Read this thread about BWLegal losses and these are England
    and Wales
    Sheriffs in Scotland do not take fools lightly and I'm not
    talking about you.

    BWLegal - the list of failures growing
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664&highlight=bwlegal
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Sep 17, 10:46 AM
    • 504 Posts
    • 601 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:46 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:46 AM
    Dont respond. I wouldnt.
    You oculd state you were not aware of who drove that day, and therefore have nothing to divulge.
    Beavis doesnt apply to Scotland does it?
    • loisb501
    • By loisb501 12th Sep 17, 9:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    loisb501
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 9:36 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 9:36 PM
    Thanks for the advice.

    So from here- ignore their letters and wait to see if anything else happens?

    I thought they were getting more cases taken to court in Scotland now- the £22k case was in Dundee.

    I would have thought the Bevis case would apply in Scotland, but the driver didn't pay for parking so its not really about an unfair charge- they possibly just stick a case name in to intimidate people into paying?

    One final thing, i asked them to cease/desist contacting me in my previous email, they responded by letter to my email, but have somehow also managed to aquire my landline and mobile number, and have tried calling 4 times (twice on landline, twice on mobile) is it worth putting in a complaint regarding their conduct?

    I'll update if i hear anything further
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Sep 17, 10:11 PM
    • 14,562 Posts
    • 22,912 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:11 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:11 PM
    but have somehow also managed to aquire my landline and mobile number, and have tried calling 4 times (twice on landline, twice on mobile) is it worth putting in a complaint regarding their conduct?
    Put a block on the number, then they can't get through. If you can't do it on your landline, report them as a nuisance caller demanding money with menaces to your phone line provider - that should put a stop to them.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Sep 17, 10:16 PM
    • 5,962 Posts
    • 7,682 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:16 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:16 PM
    Thanks for the advice.

    So from here- ignore their letters and wait to see if anything else happens?

    I thought they were getting more cases taken to court in Scotland now- the £22k case was in Dundee.

    I would have thought the Bevis case would apply in Scotland, but the driver didn't pay for parking so its not really about an unfair charge- they possibly just stick a case name in to intimidate people into paying?

    One final thing, i asked them to cease/desist contacting me in my previous email, they responded by letter to my email, but have somehow also managed to aquire my landline and mobile number, and have tried calling 4 times (twice on landline, twice on mobile) is it worth putting in a complaint regarding their conduct?

    I'll update if i hear anything further
    Originally posted by loisb501
    The Dundee case against Carly happened because she
    collected so many tickets and admitted she was the driver.
    That was the problem for her

    You will not repeat that and therefore if they don't know
    who the driver was, there is no keeper liability in Scotland.
    So, as there is no keeper liability in Scotland and they don't
    know who the driver was, if you were the PPC or legal begal
    who would you take to court if that was possible.

    Barry Beavis was a case where he claimed that the charge
    is unfair and the Supreme Court decided that the charge
    was fair (wrongly so)
    Like the majority of people, your case is not remotely
    like this. They would be complete idiots to use this as
    their claim. They are grossly misleading the public

    Regarding them phoning you, on your mobile block them
    You might be able to do this with your land phone.

    Misleading information and harassment by phone can
    only mean one thing, you issue a complaint to
    Trading Standards Scotland who are there to protect the
    public from Rogue Traders.
    That's who you dealing with .... ROGUE TRADERS
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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