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    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 7:30 AM
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    adonis10
    Contactless payment over /30
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 7:30 AM
    Contactless payment over /30 12th Sep 17 at 7:30 AM
    I have a contactless transaction on my credit card for 36/32.42 but was sure that the limit is 30 in a single transaction. The vendor told me my payment declined and so I used another card so have been charged on both. Can contactless be used for over 30?
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Sep 17, 8:27 AM
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:27 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:27 AM
    Given the evidence of your statement the answer surely must be yes. I think I've seen a few comments on here recently that there are moves towards raising the cap a little higher, so maybe that's started.

    The other thing, of course, is that as you mention a Euro amount if the payment was attempted outside the OK and was done offline then the UK cap would be irrelevant, it's the cap that applies in the country where the transaction was done that matters.
    • someone
    • By someone 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
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    someone
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:46 AM
    Some terminal are been programme to offer contactless to over 30 however it is the card issuers prerogative to decided if their cards will accept higher amounts.

    One of the reasons for this change is to support Apple/Android Pay based on the extra security measures in place.

    Barclaycard have been running ads indicating they support Apple Pay for > 30.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 12th Sep 17, 10:00 AM
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    cloud_dog
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:00 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:00 AM
    Cut a corner off the card....then, no worries
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 10:23 AM
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    adonis10
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:23 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:23 AM
    Called the bank and they said that limits do differ and new, higher limits are being trialled etc. by some card issuers. Raised it as an investigation because the vendor told me the transaction had been declined so I paid on my Revolut card, but turns out that both have been charged.


    I am really not a fan of contactless full stop, but raising the limits again just seems to be asking for trouble; drop card/have it stolen in a bar/restaurant and one could be billed hundreds in smaller transactions before they have even noticed that it is not in their pocket. Has society become so lazy that this solution is better than spending 1-2 seconds entering a pin number? What other benefits are there? Must be benefits to the banks otherwise they wouldn't do it.


    Also what baffles me is the fact that contactless transactions take an age to hit your available balance with credit/debit cards, yet with Revolut, for example, it reflects instantly. How does the technology not allow a contactless transaction to reflect in the available balance immediately yet a chip and pin one does, with the exact same debit/credit card?


    PS: I am aware that this has become a bit of a rant against contactless but I just don't get how it has been so widely accepted without opposition.
    Last edited by adonis10; 12-09-2017 at 10:26 AM.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 12th Sep 17, 10:54 AM
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    cloud_dog
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:54 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:54 AM
    Contactless payments are off-line payments. This is why if your card is lost/stolen you still have the possibility of payments going through against your account weeks after you contact the bank/cancel the card.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • 20aday
    • By 20aday 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
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    20aday
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    Contactless payments are off-line payments. This is why if your card is lost/stolen you still have the possibility of payments going through against your account weeks after you contact the bank/cancel the card.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Aren't Visa and MasterCard planning on making all contactless payments 'online' for authorisation so lost/stolen cards can't be used in the near future.

    AFAIK in the U.K. contactless payments are capped at 30, it's only the likes of Apple, Android and Samsung Pay where you're able to make higher value payments (where supported).
    It's not your credit score that counts, it's your credit history. Any replies are my own personal opinion and not a representation of my employer.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
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    cloud_dog
    • #8
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Sep 17, 10:58 AM
    PS: I am aware that this has become a bit of a rant against contactless but I just don't get how it has been so widely accepted without opposition.
    Originally posted by adonis10
    Ermm because, financial institutions are in the business of making money and one aspect of making money is via financial transactions (payments) and the more transactions they can squeeze through the more money they make.

    Obviously they have to risk assess this against any increase in fraudulent use/loss but it is no different to a insurance company weighing the risk of a young driver for premiums.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 12th Sep 17, 11:15 AM
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    cloud_dog
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 11:15 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 11:15 AM
    Aren't Visa and MasterCard planning on making all contactless payments 'online' for authorisation so lost/stolen cards can't be used in the near future.
    Originally posted by 20aday
    Hadn't heard that but I cut the corners off my CC anyway.

    I did this partially for security reasons but I also became aware, when I was using contactless, that I was becoming less aware that I was spending money or rather I wasn't retaining the recognition that I'd just spent X. I know it is limited to 30 but when you are on a day out, it becomes very simple, very easy.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • alanq
    • By alanq 12th Sep 17, 11:16 AM
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    alanq
    Aren't Visa and MasterCard planning on making all contactless payments 'online' for authorisation so lost/stolen cards can't be used in the near future.
    Originally posted by 20aday
    From October 2017 according to interviewee on Radio 4 You And Yours.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05fhkp4
    (1st item)
    I'm a Board Guide on the Budgeting and Bank Accounts, Savings & Investments, Food Shopping and Over 50s MoneySaving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert .com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 11:26 AM
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    adonis10
    Contactless payments are off-line payments. This is why if your card is lost/stolen you still have the possibility of payments going through against your account weeks after you contact the bank/cancel the card.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    So the card can be cancelled but still used for contactless payments? That is outrageous. How on earth was contactless brought in with such a flaw?
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Sep 17, 11:28 AM
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    agrinnall
    So the card can be cancelled but still used for contactless payments? That is outrageous. How on earth was contactless brought in with such a flaw?
    Originally posted by adonis10
    It's not a flaw, it's the way offline payments (of all types, not just contactless) work.
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 11:30 AM
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    adonis10
    Hadn't heard that but I cut the corners off my CC anyway.

    I did this partially for security reasons but I also became aware, when I was using contactless, that I was becoming less aware that I was spending money or rather I wasn't retaining the recognition that I'd just spent X. I know it is limited to 30 but when you are on a day out, it becomes very simple, very easy.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Absolutely this. I am generally ok as I mostly use my credit card for day to day spending (for avios points accumulation) and as soon as I make a transaction (contactless or chip and pin) I log in to my current account to pay off that amount; this is my way of controlling what is going on the card. The obvious flaw in this is nights out in a bar or restaurant where I may forget to do so and the transactions can rack up, especially as they don't give you a receipt by default.


    Whenever I get request a new debit card from the bank I ask for non-contactless (presumably this will be not possible in the near future) but I definitely will be cutting the corners off my debit card to disable contactless. Good tip, thanks.
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 11:34 AM
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    adonis10
    It's not a flaw, it's the way offline payments (of all types, not just contactless) work.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Perhaps 'flaw' was the wrong word then. My point is I really don't think it should be allowed. Could banks not have just introduced contactless as 'online' payments to mirror chip and pin? Off the back of bank scandal after bank scandal it is quite shocking that they'd open up customers to more ways of being de-frauded when there is seemingly a very simple way to prevent it.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Sep 17, 11:43 AM
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    agrinnall
    Chip and PIN is not always online, so that comparison fails too.
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 11:55 AM
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    adonis10
    Chip and PIN is not always online, so that comparison fails too.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Fair enough, wasn't aware. In my experience only, all chip and pin transactions I've done have been reflected in my available balance and zero contactless ones have, so you can see how I came to that conclusion.


    I get that it benefits the banks, but what is the actual benefit of contactless to the consumer, other than saving 1-2 seconds per transaction which, unless you spend a large chunk of your day buying stuff on card, is really, really insignificant?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 12th Sep 17, 12:21 PM
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    eskbanker
    I get that it benefits the banks, but what is the actual benefit of contactless to the consumer, other than saving 1-2 seconds per transaction which, unless you spend a large chunk of your day buying stuff on card, is really, really insignificant?
    Originally posted by adonis10
    Research has shown that contactless transactions take about half the time of Chip & PIN ones:
    http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/business/-uk-consumers-save-34-years-by-using-contactless-cards/12758.article:
    It takes the average person less than five seconds to transact when using a contactless payment card, with this time-span doubling for payments using a chip and PIN card.
    The technology comes into its own when embraced by organisations such as Transport For London though, where the convenience of waving a contactless card when travelling is an alternative to the entire traditional ticket-buying process and allows significantly greater throughput of passengers.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 12th Sep 17, 12:24 PM
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    cloud_dog
    If only I had a chip 'n' pin scanner, I'd stand by those Tube turnstiles all day
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 12th Sep 17, 12:36 PM
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    • 194 Thanks
    adonis10
    Research has shown that contactless transactions take about half the time of Chip & PIN ones:
    http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/business/-uk-consumers-save-34-years-by-using-contactless-cards/12758.articlehe technology comes into its own when embraced by organisations such as Transport For London though, where the convenience of waving a contactless card when travelling is an alternative to the entire traditional ticket-buying process and allows significantly greater throughput of passengers.
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    Woah, a whole 5 seconds saved. My head has been turned then.


    Yes, I get the benefits in situations like train and underground stations, conversely the London Underground and similar must be an absolute joy for contactless card scammers.
    • takman
    • By takman 12th Sep 17, 12:56 PM
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    takman
    I am really not a fan of contactless full stop, but raising the limits again just seems to be asking for trouble; drop card/have it stolen in a bar/restaurant and one could be billed hundreds in smaller transactions before they have even noticed that it is not in their pocket. Has society become so lazy that this solution is better than spending 1-2 seconds entering a pin number? What other benefits are there? Must be benefits to the banks otherwise they wouldn't do it.
    Originally posted by adonis10
    A lot of people use this argument but how many people do you know who have actually had money stolen due to contactless payments?. It doesn't happen hardly at all and when it does happen people get all their money back. If it was actually a big problem then the banks wouldn't be pushing contactless so much and agreeing to refund any fraud immediately.

    Woah, a whole 5 seconds saved. My head has been turned then.

    Yes, I get the benefits in situations like train and underground stations, conversely the London Underground and similar must be an absolute joy for contactless card scammers.
    Originally posted by adonis10
    I can guarantee you will not be able to find even one case of someone skimming contactless cards to steal money. Even if someone was silly enough to try this they would need to have a card reader and a merchant account to collect the money. But as soon as a few people reported the lost money they would be very easy to track down and prosecute. Also considering that it takes a few days to receive the money from a card payment they would likely be stopped before they got a penny.

    So there are lots of scare stories but in reality your very unlikely to be affected it.

    The real benefit of contactless is places such as the london underground where there is a high throughput of people and allowing devices such as watches and mobile phones to be used to make payment.

    But when it comes to card payments then why should we have to enter a pin when it isn't needed. The pin doesn't protect the user of the card it only protects the bank and they can use it to prove you made a transaction if you question it. If there is any fraud the only party to loose out are the bank so if they say we don't need to use a pin for some transactions then i'm certainly not going to complain.
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