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    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 11th Sep 17, 1:23 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    HWA01
    SP - Three Rate Meter
    • #1
    • 11th Sep 17, 1:23 PM
    SP - Three Rate Meter 11th Sep 17 at 1:23 PM
    I moved into my flat 10 years ago and have been on SP all of this time. I have a three rate meter, which I understand to be for, heating, electricity day and electricity night. I don't have storage, its an electric combi-boiler that provides domestic hot water - and
    powers 'wet' radiator systems. My bills have recently gone up and as before when I have looked into switching hardly any other suppliers supply this type of meter. EDF gave me a price but it was more than SP and E-on are getting back to me. I recently tried to get SP to change the meter to a two rate meter, they failed to turn up the first time and the second time, my dad was waiting in, the engineer said it was already the correct meter in place. SP don't seem to have a clue about my system and I have talked to a about a dozen of their staff unsuccessfully. Does anyone know if I can actually get the meter changed and/or whether installing a new heating system would allow me to switch suppliers? I currently pay a frankly ridiculous £70 a month for a 1 bed flat in Glasgow for my electricity and my heating is never on, summer or winter. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I currently have a Redring Dualheat DH9U boiler installed for info.

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Sep 17, 2:25 PM
    • 17,316 Posts
    • 11,508 Thanks
    molerat
    • #2
    • 11th Sep 17, 2:25 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Sep 17, 2:25 PM
    You probably have the most expensive forms of heating known to man (apart from one that uses £10 notes for fuel). The problem is that you need to power the heating system at all times which makes any tariff expensive and the tariff you are on is probably one of the most economical. You can be switched to a single rate tariff under The Energy Markets Investigation (Restricted Meters) Order 2016 which came into force on 1st September which will be at no cost to yourself with no change of metering. You need to find your total annual kWh used across all 3 rates and see if a single rate would be more economical. Another alternative is to have E7 or E10 metering installed which may involve some wiring changes which will be at your cost (which it seems you have already tried to do). If you feel you have been misinformed by your supplier you need to raise a formal complaint using their complaints procedure.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 11th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    • #3
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    Thanks for getting back to me, agreed on the burning £10 notes, my brother has a 2 bed house and pays less, its heartbreaking. SP didn't seem to have a clue when there guy came to my house. If I go back to them, asking for a meter change I simply ask for a E7 or E10? You also refer to wiring changes, I am happy to pay for this to get done, do SP do it or do I get an electrician to do us?


    If I was to get a new heating system put in, long term I wonder if this would save me money, what should I insist it has?
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 11th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 542 Thanks
    House Martin
    • #4
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:03 PM
    Eco 7 meters, (digital meters anyway), will mostly show three rates..Day , Night and a "t " which means total . If that is what you have you need only to read rates 1 ( r1 is day rate mostly) and rate 2 (r2) night rate.Do not submit the total reading even if the supplier is adding them together and billing single rate only.
    £70 a month is nt too bad.You have no gas bills presumably. Your heating system has nothing to do with SP or any supplier. SP can total the two reads together but that is about it.
    If you are all electric then Eco7 is needed
    Last edited by House Martin; 11-09-2017 at 4:07 PM.
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 11th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    • #5
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    £70 a month for a 1 bed flat is a lot of money compared to what others I know are paying. Martin, its not a digital meter (SP say my area isn't eligible), so not sure I can do what you have suggested? I have reviewed my bill again and the cost is detailed below: -

    Meter number: 2112P03755
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 1793
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 1862
    Electricity units used 69 = 69 kWh

    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 8411
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 8480
    Electricity units used 69 = 69 kWh

    Standard rate 138 kWh x 14.286p £19.71
    Standing Charge 28 days x 28.970p £8.11

    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 13900
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 13969.8
    Electricity units used 69.8 = 69.8 kWh
    Heating rate 69.8 kWh x 9.148p £6.39

    Total electricity costs £34.21

    The electricity used day and night is exactly the same at 69kWh used, to give a total of 138kWh, that doesn't make sense does it or am I missing something?
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    • 17,316 Posts
    • 11,508 Thanks
    molerat
    • #6
    • 11th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Sep 17, 5:40 PM
    It does not make sense because it is an estimated reading - a guess at the reads, whenever you get an estimated bill you need to check and submit correct readings. Also where does £70 come from, you have put £34.21 ?
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 11th Sep 17, 6:11 PM
    • 3,077 Posts
    • 1,811 Thanks
    matelodave
    • #7
    • 11th Sep 17, 6:11 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Sep 17, 6:11 PM
    If you accept estimated readings then you've no idea of how much energy you are using or when you use it. You must do your own meter readings and get bills or statements corrected.

    DO NOT ACCEPT ESTIMATED READINGS get them corrected immediately.

    Start keeping your own records rather than relying on random estimates from your supplier. When you know what you actually use then and at which rate then you'll be able to decide whethet an E7 tariff would work for you.

    I suspect that it wouldn't because you only get the off peak rate between around midnight and seven in the morning and your heating system would be working during the peak rate times. Even E.10 may not depending on when you get your off peak allowance and when you want heat or hot water.

    Until you know what you use and when you use it you can't really decide which tariff would suit you best
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 11th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    • #8
    • 11th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Sep 17, 6:29 PM
    I dont accept estimated readings, this got sent to me when I was on holiday, I have submitted meter reads today with actual reads and submit them regularly, below is a previous bill with actual reads.

    Meter number: 2112P03755
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    29 May 2017 Customer read: 8192
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 8411
    Electricity units used 219 = 219 kWh
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    29 May 2017 Customer read: 1748
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 1793
    Electricity units used 45 = 45 kWh
    Standard rate 264 kWh x 14.286p £37.72
    Standing Charge 51 days x 28.970p £14.77
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    29 May 2017 Customer read: 13605
    19 Jul 2017 Customer read: 13900
    Electricity units used 295 = 295 kWh
    Heating rate 295 kWh x 9.148p £26.99
    Total electricity costs £79.48

    The £70 is my monthly direct debit, the bill I showed was a shorter period of time. How do I work out whether E7 or E10 is best and when I do I simply get SP to change my meter setup?
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 12th Sep 17, 4:29 AM
    • 6,149 Posts
    • 5,275 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 4:29 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Sep 17, 4:29 AM
    Hi,

    you will need to find out the E7 and E10 rates for your area, then calculate,

    51 days x the standing charge,

    264 standard units x the day rate,

    295 heating x the night rate,

    and compare against your 29 May - 19 July bill above, remember the vat,

    though you would be better doing it using an annual consumption.
    Y'all take care now.
    • wavelets
    • By wavelets 12th Sep 17, 9:51 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    wavelets
    ^^^

    Whilst that may give an indication, it may give a wholly innacurate indication especially as you say you don't have NSH.

    For example, you would be totally ignoring the consumption used at night as recorded by the meter (although that may differ from the 7 hours chaep rate applicable to E7 in your region)
    But then again, you say you don't use any heating, yet the meter suggests otherwise

    On the tariff you currently have, all heating, no matter when used, will be recorded as heating by the meter.

    E7 is totally different. It does not distinguish heating from any other usage; it simply charges you the reduced rate for the whole consumption used dururing the 7 hours of cheap rate. It is very difficult to compare to your current tariff.

    Perhaps if you were to obtain an OWL type monitor, and ensure it records all consumption, but set it to E7, that should indicate you are using at the appropriate periods.
    But you really need this data for a whole year for it to be valuable.
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 12th Sep 17, 10:33 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    Appreciate all the feedback, what does NSH mean wavelets? The heating i think will be for my hot water I would assume but I haven't had the heating on since May this year, I am quite anal about ensuring my consumption is as low as possible, so heating is never on. An OWL meter I assume is one of these, on the OWL website (not allowed to post links). From what is being said there its not clear what is the correct next step. Would a completely new boiler system help at all, it may be worth the investment considering my monthly costs? My boiler I think is from 1999. Is there anyone else I could speak to, to help? Is it worth getting my meter checked to see if its working properly?

    On the back of my latest meter reads my DD is now up to £75 a month

    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 8521.5
    11 Sep 2017 Customer read: 8631
    Electricity units used 109.5 = 109.5 kWh
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 1814.6
    11 Sep 2017 Customer read: 1836
    Electricity units used 21.4 = 21.4 kWh
    Standard rate 130.9 kWh x 14.286p £18.70
    Standing Charge 26 days x 28.970p £7.53
    Standard Online - Monthly Direct Debit
    16 Aug 2017 Estimated read: 14019.5
    11 Sep 2017 Customer read: 14138
    Electricity units used 118.5 = 118.5 kWh
    Heating rate 118.5 kWh x 9.148p £10.84
    • wavelets
    • By wavelets 12th Sep 17, 10:47 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    wavelets
    Appreciate all the feedback, what does NSH mean wavelets? ...
    Originally posted by HWA01
    What you refewr to in your OP as "storage"

    On the back of my latest meter reads my DD is now up to £75 a month...
    Originally posted by HWA01
    If you think it's inappropriate, this explains how to challenge it
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits
    • wavelets
    • By wavelets 12th Sep 17, 10:51 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    wavelets
    ...I haven't had the heating on since May this year..
    Originally posted by HWA01
    That's not what you said in your OP yesterday

    ...my heating is never on, summer or winter. ...
    Originally posted by HWA01
    Google what Judge Judy says about when you need a good memory, and when you don't
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 12th Sep 17, 12:05 PM
    • 6,149 Posts
    • 5,275 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    Hi,

    HWAO1 this is from Scottish Power site, what system do you have?

    Wet electric central heating systems There are two main types of system:
    • Electric storage boilers - are systems with thermal storage. This means they can supply heat and hot water on demand, as long as sufficient hot water is stored in the system.
    • Flow boilers - don't have thermal storage. They give you heat and hot water on demand but need a 24-hour electricity supply. Flow boilers do not supply domestic hot water so your hot water will still be provided through your hot water tank.
    Make sure you control the times and temperature your electric heating system comes on and off, so you don't spend more than you have to.
    • We recommend that living rooms are set to 21C, and 18C for areas like bathrooms and halls.
    • Your hot water temperature should be a maximum of 63C.
    • If you're not using a particular room, keep the temperature there a little lower, but not freezing, especially in the winter.
    • Use thermostatic radiator valves to control the temperature in each room - and remember that you might have to 'bleed' water filled radiators to keep them working efficiently.
    Y'all take care now.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 12th Sep 17, 12:35 PM
    • 17,316 Posts
    • 11,508 Thanks
    molerat
    https://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/pdf/redring/DualHeat.pdf
    Looks like a 9kW electric combi.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 12th Sep 17, 3:32 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    As molerart says its an electric combi boiler, I have a Danfoss room thermostat controller, which doesn't have any temperatures programmed in to come on at any point of the week. I don't have any way to control water temperature there is no temperature setting on the combi boiler. My boiler cupboard just has power switch for the boiler and another one for the pump. There is nothing that I can see for controlling the water temperature.

    All radiators have TRVs on them already,
    • Buzby
    • By Buzby 12th Sep 17, 3:58 PM
    • 8,128 Posts
    • 2,980 Thanks
    Buzby
    A slight complication is you are dealing with 2 entities - your meter belongs to SPN (Scottish Power Networks) who is the Regional Supply Authority for Glasgow - they used to be called the SSEB. You pay your bills to Scottish Power who will set the tariffs you are on - they are not known for being cheap, what is the name of the tariff you are on, and when did you switch to it.

    E7 and E10 are only of use for high demand overnight. As you have no storage these `White meter' services can mean you will pay even more as the daytime (peak) electric costs more per KWh and always have.
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 14th Sep 17, 12:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    I am on SP, Standard Online - Monthly direct debit which SP say (I know!) is the best deal for me. Have spoken with the manufacturer of the boiler who has said, that apparently an economy 18 or millenium tariff was put in place for these types of boilers. A dual heat rate which meant you only had heating on for 18 hours out of 24 hrs with two periods of 3 hours which were the highest rate you wouldn't be charged meaning you get a cheaper rate. This seems to be the SP economy 2000 tariff, information is limited online. I spoke to SP and they have no idea about this tariff and no longer provide it, however the person I spoke to didn’t seem to know what they were talking about. Short term I will simply turn off my heating and record the readings every day going forward.
    • HWA01
    • By HWA01 19th Sep 17, 10:42 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    HWA01
    I have been monitoring the electricity for the last week and assuming I don't use the washing machine or dishwasher the usage is 7kWh per day approx. The boiler switch is turned off and thankfully cuts any requirement for heating, so none has been used for the past week. I have a electric shower so that doesn't need hot water.

    The tariff does seem to be excessive, electricity rate is 14.286p and heating rate 9.148, but the real issue is the standard charge at 28.97p per day. As it seem moving supplier is all but impossible and from the advice above, a meter change doesnt seem to be recommended would it be worthwhile replacing my boiler and if so to what type and would that allow a change of meter and access to better tariffs?
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