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  • FIRST POST
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 2:37 PM
    • 86Posts
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    charoniv
    Bank employee approved broker list
    • #1
    • 9th Sep 17, 2:37 PM
    Bank employee approved broker list 9th Sep 17 at 2:37 PM
    I've just taken a contract with a bank (well my company has) and it means I am covered by their employee investment restrictions (partly insider trading, partly gambling control it seems).

    It means that I am only allowed to hold accounts with brokers on their approved list - of about 6 brokers. This applies to funds as well as shares.
    Of my brokers only Fidelity is on the list, ii, iweb, hl, bestinvest.... are not.

    Also restricted as too the brokers that my IFA is allowed to use so my pension that he deals with will have to move (unless I am willing to make it a managed service of which I receive no prior information - not going to do that). Will mean that I drop my IFA for the duration of the contract and move the pension funds.

    I've talked to other people there and they had to move their investments. We are given 10 days to do it but I suspect that's not possible and won't be policed.

    Has anyone come across this before and what have they done. It probably means that you should be careful about brokers if you might ever work for a bank.
Page 1
    • jamei305
    • By jamei305 9th Sep 17, 4:06 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 266 Thanks
    jamei305
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:06 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:06 PM
    I hope they're paying you enough to make this worthwhile and you're not getting minimum wage for counting coppers.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 4:52 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:52 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:52 PM
    Yes, I get paid enough - but I'm going to discuss reimbursement for this just to be difficult.
    Fortunately my last contribution to the hl sipp is over a year ago so I think I don't get penalised for moving that (if it is prohibited).
    I was about to move it and contribute more - glad I haven't got round to it yet but it'll have to be done this month.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Sep 17, 4:55 PM
    • 89,566 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #4
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:55 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Sep 17, 4:55 PM
    I deal with several bank employees (including several in the city rather than branch clerks) and they have no restriction when an IFA is used and it is using retail packaged products/investments and not direct holdings (shares etc).

    Yours seems massively overkill. Have they actually explained it correctly?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    • 86 Posts
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    charoniv
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:14 PM
    I only have a daily opaque document which looks like it is quite recent but that may be updates.

    They say anything that I have control, influence or prior/post knowledge of dealing.
    It specifically includes index linked funds but a lot of the terminology is non-U.K.
    I'm going to talk to the compliance team next week about it.

    It doesn't explicitly talk about pension or SIPP but does mention ISA.

    Tying to let you guess the bank as I can't state or confirm it's name.
    I'm sure you'll have come across it.

    Maybe my IFA with L&G drawdown is ok. Maybe I could move my sipp and ISAs to him too?
    Last edited by charoniv; 09-09-2017 at 5:22 PM.
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 9th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
    • 584 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
    As a bank employee I too am (theoretically) restricted from certain investment activity. How could your employer possibly know, though? I say, just make sure you use a second current account to set up the DDs and so on, and proceed to do what the hell you want. Using insider knowledge is obviously cause for severe trouble with your company but it staggers me to think their blacklisting of brokers is justified.
    I work for a UK bank, but any comments made on this forum are solely my personal opinion. Caveat Emptor!
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 5:30 PM
    • 86 Posts
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    charoniv
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:30 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Sep 17, 5:30 PM
    They get information from brokers.
    It's basically in the interests of everyone in the finance industry to keep on the good side of the big institutions. Let's not mention data protection.
    I also wouldn't want to conceal anything on the compliance declaration as that could be far too expensive.
    They haven't asked for information about my current accounts - of which there are several already - plus dormant ones.
    They do want to know about all my business interests - they've tried a definition of what that means but it's going to be fun.

    In the old days when I contracted to banks employees were only allowed an account with that bank and weren't allowed to go overdrawn. So they opened another account with a different bank, got found out, got told off, closed the second account and opened another elsewhere until that was discovered.
    Consultants weren't expected to comply with many of the regulations in those days though.
    Last edited by charoniv; 09-09-2017 at 5:34 PM.
    • Audaxer
    • By Audaxer 9th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    • 571 Posts
    • 248 Thanks
    Audaxer
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:07 PM
    I've just taken a contract with a bank (well my company has) and it means I am covered by their employee investment restrictions (partly insider trading, partly gambling control it seems).
    Originally posted by charoniv
    It sounds very restrictive even for direct employees of the bank let alone somebody or a company with a contract with a bank. If you don't mine me asking, what work does your company do for the bank? When you refer to 'my company', do you mean that you an employee of the company, or are you actually the owner or director of the company?
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 6:15 PM
    • 86 Posts
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    charoniv
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:15 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Sep 17, 6:15 PM
    Director/sole employee. I'm not going to use a government term.

    Can't say what I do but it is correct that the bank should be concerned how I use the information to which I have access - but compliance is decided by the department I happen to be working in not the role.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Sep 17, 6:49 PM
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    dunstonh
    It specifically includes index linked funds but a lot of the terminology is non-U.K.
    The problem with it not being UK specific is you get inconsistency. For example index linked funds is not type in the UK. You either have ETFs or UT/OEICs or pension funds or life funds. I would expect ETFs to be out but would not expect UT/OEIC, Life or pension funds to be out.

    Basically, if the investment needs a broker then you usually find those excluded. Whereas if it doesn't need a broker but is packaged then its fine.

    I think you should seek clarification. Maybe their definition of broker doesnt help as your IFA is not a broker for example and the vast majority of what an IFA puts in place is not brokerage either.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • george4064
    • By george4064 9th Sep 17, 7:04 PM
    • 857 Posts
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    george4064
    HL not being on the list is a big surprise given that HL are the biggest retail broker/platform in the UK!!!

    Somethings not right, double check it with whoever at the company.
    "If you arenít willing to own a stock for ten years, donít even think about owning it for ten minutesĒ Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
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    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 9th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    • 5,804 Posts
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    eskbanker
    As a bank employee I too am (theoretically) restricted from certain investment activity. How could your employer possibly know, though? I say, just make sure you use a second current account to set up the DDs and so on, and proceed to do what the hell you want.
    Originally posted by Flobberchops
    Reassuring to see that standards of probity and ethics are as strong as ever in the banking industry - see a rule that you don't like, decide that it doesn't apply to you and basically ignore it (albeit doing so via a clumsily rudimentary method that'll make the wilful deception transparently obvious if/when any scrutiny happens)!
    Last edited by eskbanker; 09-09-2017 at 7:40 PM.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 7:17 PM
    • 86 Posts
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    charoniv
    hl is definitely excluded - that's been checked.
    None of the cheaper platforms are allowed.

    I suspect it might only be those that are willing to disclose position information.
    • Audaxer
    • By Audaxer 9th Sep 17, 7:39 PM
    • 571 Posts
    • 248 Thanks
    Audaxer
    Director/sole employee. I'm not going to use a government term.

    Can't say what I do but it is correct that the bank should be concerned how I use the information to which I have access - but compliance is decided by the department I happen to be working in not the role.
    Originally posted by charoniv
    Thanks, I hope your contract is worth the hassle if you have investments with ii, iweb, hl, bestinvest that all have to be transferred within 10 days.
    • george4064
    • By george4064 9th Sep 17, 7:42 PM
    • 857 Posts
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    george4064
    hl is definitely excluded - that's been checked.
    None of the cheaper platforms are allowed.

    I suspect it might only be those that are willing to disclose position information.
    Originally posted by charoniv
    If I were you, I would ask work what the requirements are. Then ask HL if they can meet those requirements.

    I'd be very surprised if HL could/would not meet those requirements.
    "If you arenít willing to own a stock for ten years, donít even think about owning it for ten minutesĒ Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
    Save £12k in 2017 - #003 £11,044.98/£12,000 (92%)
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Sep 17, 7:43 PM
    • 89,566 Posts
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    dunstonh
    HL not being on the list is a big surprise given that HL are the biggest retail broker/platform in the UK!!!
    I seem to recall HL as being 4th biggest. I would expect it to be eliminated as it allows brokerage deals.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 7:57 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    The problem with it not being UK specific is you get inconsistency. For example index linked funds is not type in the UK. You either have ETFs or UT/OEICs or pension funds or life funds. I would expect ETFs to be out but would not expect UT/OEIC, Life or pension funds to be out.

    Basically, if the investment needs a broker then you usually find those excluded. Whereas if it doesn't need a broker but is packaged then its fine.

    I think you should seek clarification. Maybe their definition of broker doesnt help as your IFA is not a broker for example and the vast majority of what an IFA puts in place is not brokerage either.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    I suspect your comment about retail packaged via an IFA might be correct which would allow my L&G sipp funds?

    ETFs do get a mention but are they that different from OEICs now - given that holding for less than a couple of months needs prior approval so intra-day movements don't matter.

    Can't have an account with an unapproved broker that is capable of holding an unapproved instrument - so anything that allows share dealing is out.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 9th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    Thanks, I hope your contract is worth the hassle if you have investments with ii, iweb, hl, bestinvest that all have to be transferred within 10 days.
    Originally posted by Audaxer
    I got that wrong - it's 60 days.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 9th Sep 17, 8:10 PM
    • 19,814 Posts
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    Lokolo
    I would double check, both the investment managers would let me have my own account wherever I wanted but they would report holdings and transactions back to the company.

    Both HL and CSD had automated setup so that anything I did would automatically go back to inform my company.

    If you are in front office (trading, fund manager etc.) then I could understand even more restrictions, but this doesn't sound right to me.
    • george4064
    • By george4064 9th Sep 17, 8:10 PM
    • 857 Posts
    • 910 Thanks
    george4064
    Direct holding with Vanguard is worth investigating.
    "If you arenít willing to own a stock for ten years, donít even think about owning it for ten minutesĒ Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
    Save £12k in 2017 - #003 £11,044.98/£12,000 (92%)
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